Page 1 of 26 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 387

Thread: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dublin North-West - the leading constituency!
    Posts
    5,881

    Default The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    An article in the Indo today has me once again thinking about the most sacred of sacred cows, the Irish language.

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/co...-29346520.html

    It is possible to keep a minority language in some sort of healthy condition as our Welsh cousins prove time and again, despite the proximity, culturally and geographically to England. However, the Irish language seems to be forever in trouble, despite having millions thrown at it and traditionally had a government to look after it.
    One problem I see with it is that there are fanatics in the Irish language movement who believe that have a proprietorial claim to owning it.

    What do people think? Has the time come to kill this off once and for all? Or should we be a lot more imaginative in our attempts to revive Irish for future generations? Can we get ordinary citizens to buy into rejuvenating Irish? Or do we leave it in the hands of assorted fanatics and nutters and allow them to set the agenda for the Irish language?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,845

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    About a century and a half ago the population in Ireland shifted to using English as the preferred language. The people decided to drop Irish and Ireland is today an Anglophone country. A few pockets in rural areas did keep Irish and I suppose larger areas of Wales held onto Welsh when English was becoming the preferred language there too.

    So, Irish almost died out completely. Nationalists subsequently took control of politics in Ireland and determined that Irish be revived, giving it the status of an official language. This should have rung an alarm bell. When measures to revive a language to aid a political cause or vision it is time to throw in the towel. Using the state to coerce the whole population of the Free State into acquiring Irish through a program of compulsory education did more to harm Irish than help it, especially given the instructional methods of the recent past. What normal English speaking child from an English speaking home would embrace another language when physically tormented by sadistic national school teachers from a different cultural background? None.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    I believe Irish should be encouraged for cultural reasons.

    It is part of our history and of what we are.

    I don't agree with compulsion, but suggest that those who wish to use and promote Irish should be encouraged.

    btw calling those who support use of Irish nutters etc is inaccurate. It is true that I am wearing sandals today because it is a fine day in Mayo. I don't have an Aran geansaí. Not enough of hair for a ponytail.
    Last edited by homer; 15-06-2013 at 09:24 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,551

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    I would think it hypocritical of we who moan about Iris servility, an anglozone state of mind and colonial cringe to give credence to such self loathing articles that are not far off saying we're no better than plastic brits. try again fail better

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,551

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    I would think it hypocritical of we who moan about Irish servility, an anglozone state of mind and colonial cringe to give credence to such self loathing articles that are not far off saying we're no better than plastic brits. try again fail better

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    1,910

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    I think it is time to remove Irish as an official language from the constitution and also to repeal the ridiculous "Official languages act." Under this act, my workplace has been forced to waste hours of work in replacing our signs with bilingual Irish-English signage, even though I can say for certain that we do not have one single person on campus who speaks Irish but does not understand English.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Baile Átha Cliath
    Posts
    5,092

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    I would think it hypocritical of we who moan about Iris servility, an anglozone state of mind and colonial cringe to give credence to such self loathing articles that are not far off saying we're no better than plastic brits. try again fail better
    Well said... the colonial cringe and self loathing gets quite tiresome. What needs to happen is that the way Irish is taught is changed, with more emphasis on speaking it rather than regurgitating essays. With the increase in Irish speaking schools more and more young people are becoming fluent in the language.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dublin North-West - the leading constituency!
    Posts
    5,881

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Well said... the colonial cringe and self loathing gets quite tiresome. What needs to happen is that the way Irish is taught is changed, with more emphasis on speaking it rather than regurgitating essays. With the increase in Irish speaking schools more and more young people are becoming fluent in the language.
    I agree that the way it is taught and the reason it is taught both need to be changed. For many people, the only reason to learn it is to cough it up again as required for exam purposes. And, like the student in the article, close forever the relationship with the language with the last full stop on the exam paper.

    A strategy to repossess the language as a part of our culture as a whole and not leave it as the plaything of a small minority of nutters is a necessary starting point. If we are not prepared to think about radical measures to revive the language, learning from 90 years of failure as an independent state, then we should get out the embalming lotion.
    Last edited by Slim Buddha; 15-06-2013 at 05:40 PM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    641

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Saoirse go Deo View Post
    Well said... the colonial cringe and self loathing gets quite tiresome. What needs to happen is that the way Irish is taught is changed, with more emphasis on speaking it rather than regurgitating essays. With the increase in Irish speaking schools more and more young people are becoming fluent in the language.
    I agree with the above. The grammar can be quite complex and can discourage use of Irish.

    I went to a secondary school in the fifties where much of the teaching was thru Irish. There were many native speakers of Irish there. They laughed at "Gaeilge na Leabhar" - ( book Irish ).

    I think the Fainne or other scheme to promote spoken Irish should be revived

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,410

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    The fact that you agree with an article in the indo is astounding. Apjp is spot on.

    We are not british or english. Those of us who speak irish are denied the ability to do this with the state everyday but somehow the argument is about compulsion? Shouldnt it be about rights?

    In my experience with the Irish language bodies, the problem is generally that as will all state bodies, they are full of party men, old pple and generally people who have no academic professional idea of language planning. Its sad and cumbersome, but those people generally have their hearts in the right place.

    A genuine national debate needs to happen, things must change and those who want to speak Irish, learn it or send their children to Irish language schools must have a constitutional right to do so. This does not impinge on the majority, it would just be allowing those who want to use Irish and who believe that its important , to do so.

    If this was the case, and if other circumstances were met, i would definitely agree to drop cumpulsion till leaving cert level.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    3,688

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    I would think it hypocritical of we who moan about Irish servility, an anglozone state of mind and colonial cringe to give credence to such self loathing articles that are not far off saying we're no better than plastic brits. try again fail better
    Agreed, the encouragement of cultural vandalism from a fifth columnist "newspaper". I regret not putting more effort in to learn it myself, it's a beautiful language and my kids seem to be being taught it in a way that encourages them. Lots of kids in their secondary school are extremely proficient in it from going to gaelscoileanna. Let those with a grá for it thrive in advanced classes and let those not too keen on it do a foundation type version of it in secondary school. Just the basics, the ability to hold a reasonable conversation in it would ensure that people would leave school with a basic grasp of the language and without having a chip on their shoulder about it from struggling to get the grades.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Dublin North-West - the leading constituency!
    Posts
    5,881

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogiol View Post
    The fact that you agree with an article in the indo is astounding.

    Who are you referring to, Ogiol?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    1,410

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    I agree with the above. The grammar can be quite complex and can discourage use of Irish.

    I went to a secondary school in the fifties where much of the teaching was thru Irish. There were many native speakers of Irish there. They laughed at "Gaeilge na Leabhar" - ( book Irish ).

    I think the Fainne or other scheme to promote spoken Irish should be revived
    There is, it's called Anseo and it's a smartphone App.. that links Irish speakers, learners, enthuasiasts and also businesses, groups schools all over the country and abroad.. check it out at anseoapp.com

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    627

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    When you see that thicko O'Dohnaill up in Donegal hiding behing the Irish language, you know something is badly wrong, too much money wasted on translations, signs etc., personally would ditch 90% of the baloney around its "official" status.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,551

    Default Re: The Irish Language - Kill it or Rejuvenate it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    Who are you referring to, Ogiol?


    I must say your post was open to interpretation. Every language has baggage. Few are as stigmatised as Irish. In fact TG4 estimated BEFORE the recession we spent more money on staplers. Sacred cow hardly. certainly no cash cow

Page 1 of 26 12311 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us