View Poll Results: Should Abortion be Legislated For in Ireland ?

Voters
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  • The Woman Should Choose

    43 43.88%
  • The Woman Should Choose Up to a Time Limit

    35 35.71%
  • No Abortion Law Should be Passed

    3 3.06%
  • The Bill as Proposed Should Be Passed

    5 5.10%
  • Abortion Should Not Be Allowed

    2 2.04%
  • A Team of Experts Should Decide

    1 1.02%
  • One medical practitioner should decide

    4 4.08%
  • Abortion Should be Allowed If there is No Chance of the Baby Surviving

    16 16.33%
  • A Referendum is Needed: I would vote Yes

    10 10.20%
  • A Referendum is Needed: I would vote No

    5 5.10%
  • Time Limits Should Be Considered

    10 10.20%
  • Suicide Risk Should Not Be an Eligible Reason for Abortion

    14 14.29%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013 and Referendum on 8th Amendment

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Hmm. It looks like the right to travel and information is 'subject to such conditions as may be laid down by law'. For instance, the Guardian article below says that 'Disseminating information on how to buy early abortion pills is illegal in the Republic'.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/03/ireland-pro-choice-campaign-risk-prison?CMP=twt_gu
    that's from

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/...0004.html#sec4
    Regulation of Information (Services Outside the State For Termination of Pregnancies) Act, 1995

    4.—It shall not be lawful—


    (a) to display a notice (including an advertisement) containing Act information in or at a place to which the public have access whether upon payment or free of charge, or


    (b) to distribute without solicitation by the recipients a book, newspaper, journal, magazine, leaflet or pamphlet, or any other document, or a film or a recording (whether of sound or images or both), containing Act information.
    Littering is probably the height of what they could be charged with

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Spectabilis View Post
    I thought that the reference to implantation rather than the moment of conception made the morning-after-pill secure in legal terms in the proposed Bill. ?
    Think you're correct there. Page four:
    “Implantation” means implantation in the womb of a woman. This definition aims to excludethe treatment of ectopic pregnancies and emergency contraception from the scope of thisBill.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Hmm. It looks like the right to travel and information is 'subject to such conditions as may be laid down by law'. For instance, the Guardian article below says that 'Disseminating information on how to buy early abortion pills is illegal in the Republic'.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/may/03/ireland-pro-choice-campaign-risk-prison?CMP=twt_gu
    The section of the act provided by the Doc contains the words "to distribute without solicitation by the recipients". There's no problem disseminating the information, the illegality is disseminating it to those who haven't requested it.

    If the government attempted to introduce legislation with the objective of effectively banning the provision of information it would surely be struck down by the Supreme Court.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    that's from

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1995/...0004.html#sec4


    Littering is probably the height of what they could be charged with
    A bit more than that. A few pages on:
    10.(1) A person who contravenes
    section 3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7 , 8 or 9 shall be guilty of an offence and shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding £1,500.
    Don't know if anybody has ever been charged or convicted though.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    The section of the act provided by the Doc contains the words "to distribute without solicitation by the recipients". There's no problem disseminating the information, the illegality is disseminating it to those who haven't requested it.

    If the government attempted to introduce legislation with the objective of effectively banning the provision of information it would surely be struck down by the Supreme Court.
    In reality I can't imagine there's going to be any provisions tightening up the law on the provision of information. Interesting to see the ambiguities in the current law though.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    The current set up thrives in ambiguity. Often fatally as we have seen.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013


  8. #38
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    The Bishops ain't for turning

    The Catholic Church has left the threat of excommunication hanging over the heads of Catholic members of the Dail who vote for the abortion legislation in its current format.

    Asked if a TD who voted for the legislation as published would not automatically be excommunicated and should not therefore present himself/herself for Holy Communion, Archbishop Brady replied: "That is down the line at the moment, as far as we are concerned.

    "It (our job) is to convince the electorate first of all and the legislators."

    Pressed on the matter, Cardinal Brady pointed out that the exact legislation that would be introduced was not yet known.

    "We know what the law is about excommunication, about abortion, that's a fact.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29242992.html
    Last edited by DCon; 05-05-2013 at 09:46 AM.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Neither are the FG rebels, it seems

    Taoiseach Enda Kenny has been warned by rebels on the Fine Gael pro-life wing of the party that "the war is not yet over" when it comes to the Government's proposal to legislate for the X Case. And Labour TDs and senators are adamant this weekend that no further restrictions would be tolerated
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29242965.html

    One wonders how many swimming pools, junior Ministries etc will be needed
    Last edited by DCon; 05-05-2013 at 09:40 AM.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Lucinda will not be resigning however

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29242966.html
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    SBP says FF may support as a Party while giving individual members the option to abstain

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    The section of the act provided by the Doc contains the words "to distribute without solicitation by the recipients". There's no problem disseminating the information, the illegality is disseminating it to those who haven't requested it.

    If the government attempted to introduce legislation with the objective of effectively banning the provision of information it would surely be struck down by the Supreme Court.
    Why would the government even want to restrict information?
    "Men never commit evil so fully and joyfully as when they do it for religious convictions." Blaise Pascal.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    SBP says FF may support as a Party while giving individual members the option to abstain
    Indo reckons the party is split down the middle:
    Mr Martin had wanted to support the bill, but his TDs and senators are almost split down the middle. It puts the party leader in a difficult position and facing the prospect of losing Oireachtas members if he imposes a whipped vote.
    Senator Diarmuid Wilson was said to be the most passionate voice against the legislation, utterly ruling out voting for it, while others opposed included TDs Michael McGrath, Dara Calleary, Robert Troy, Eamon O Cuiv, Seamus Kirk and Sean O Fearghail, and senators Terry Leyden and Labhras O Murchu. TDs John Browne and Brendan Smyth are also in the anti-legislation camp.
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-29241471.html

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    I have to admire Enda Kenny for his comments today at Knock. He seems determined to stand up the the church and its more hysterical front organisations.

    That remark about the Constitution being the people's book was pretty neat.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by Simonsays View Post
    Why would the government even want to restrict information?
    I was responding to a 'how' rather than 'why' question.

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