View Poll Results: Should Abortion be Legislated For in Ireland ?

Voters
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  • The Woman Should Choose

    43 43.88%
  • The Woman Should Choose Up to a Time Limit

    35 35.71%
  • No Abortion Law Should be Passed

    3 3.06%
  • The Bill as Proposed Should Be Passed

    5 5.10%
  • Abortion Should Not Be Allowed

    2 2.04%
  • A Team of Experts Should Decide

    1 1.02%
  • One medical practitioner should decide

    4 4.08%
  • Abortion Should be Allowed If there is No Chance of the Baby Surviving

    16 16.33%
  • A Referendum is Needed: I would vote Yes

    10 10.20%
  • A Referendum is Needed: I would vote No

    5 5.10%
  • Time Limits Should Be Considered

    10 10.20%
  • Suicide Risk Should Not Be an Eligible Reason for Abortion

    14 14.29%
Multiple Choice Poll.
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Thread: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

  1. #1
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    Default Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    The Heads of the Bill:

    LAST NIGHT, THE government published the heads of bill for the Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013.
    The details were decided on following a two-part meeting yesterday and the proposed bill will now be referred to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health and Children to be reviewed.
    The contents of the bill lay out the terms for approving an abortion, including that the consent of one consultant is needed in the case of an emergency; two in the case of physical risk; and from three consultants in cases of a suicide threat.
    The full details of what the proposed bill containscan be found here, while the process for how theproposals become law can be read here.

    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Protection-of-Life-During-Pregnancy-Bill-PLP-30.04.13-10.30.pdf
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    From the PDF link above, this is where there is a case of uncertainty and people will shift uncomfortably in their seats

    there is a real and substantial risk of loss of the pregnant woman’s life other
    than by way of self-destruction,
    By way of another definition, this means to be clarified or it will risk the mothers life further. The lack of definition will result in doctors conferring when a mothers life is in danger, time is precious and if doctors differ patients will die. Lack of certainty over this will result in more doctors being worried in case they are brought before ethics committees or even worse before a court of law to answer for a decision they felt at the time they may have made in good faith. The contents in a way may lay out the terms for abortion but in a very ambigious and unclear way and its going to confuse a lot of medical practitioners. Its an Irish solution to an Irish problem...

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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    It's great to hear the pro-lifers getting more and more hysterical now that they've lost. Poor Lucinda Creighton had dreams of becoming Taoiseach on the wave of a backlash in Fine Gael; now she'll be lucky to keep her seat. And Mark Coleman of Newstalk made a right buffoon of himself yesterday shouting at his guests - probably after a job on Fox News.
    It's nice to enjoy the radio chat shows for once.

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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Statement from Gilmore and Government press conference here.

    Excellent analysis here from Mairead Enright, worth a read. Fergal Crehan should have something shortly too.


    For my own part the reassurance of right to travel at head thirteen sums of the vanity and hypocrisy of this country.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    a real and
    substantial risk to the woman of loss of life that can only be averted by a medical procedure
    in the course of which or as a result of which unborn human life is ended
    How would that have helped Savita Halapannavar ?

    Not at all.

    The language is littered with woolly and unclear Pro-Life terminology -"unborn" "medical procedure" instead of fetus and termination of pregnancy.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    How would that have helped Savita Halapannavar ?

    Not at all.

    The language is littered with woolly and unclear Pro-Life terminology -"unborn" "medical procedure" instead of fetus and termination of pregnancy.
    All this fudging is to please the conservative elements.

    The suicide clause is another f**king mess, some psychiatrists have refused to be on the panel should they be asked.

    Wide open and vague language gives the state a massive say so in certain cases...

    Has to be reiterated an Irish solution to the issue...
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Drennan

    FF party in a dead heat on abortion. One vote could decide whether it is a free vote or the Dear Leader gets his way
    Nearly four hours into meeting

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    RTÉ

    It is understood that the Fianna Fáil will not decide its position on the Government's abortion legislation for several weeks

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    A great article/post by Victoria White on the insulting mess that this legislation is.

    http://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion...nt-230048.html
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    “professional experts” only will be called to give evidence and will focus solely on the heads of the bill.

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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    RTE is reporting that more women are turning up at clinics in Ireland after having tried to terminate their pregnancies with drugs bought online.

    Very worrying indeed. It is inevitable, too, because more people now can't afford to travel to the U.K.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Head 19:
    Head 19 Offence Provide that
    (1) It shall be an offence for a person to do any act with the intent to destroy unborn humanlife.



    (2) A person who is guilty of an offence under this head is liable on conviction on indictmentto a fine or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 14 years or both.
    Could that provision be applied to those who distribute information used by women who travel to England for an abortion?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...son?CMP=twt_gu

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Head 19:


    Could that provision be applied to those who distribute information used by women who travel to England for an abortion?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...son?CMP=twt_gu
    The Sunday Independent ran one of their famous "stings" on that too, last year, pointing the finger at agencies giving advice and information.

    The wording is incredibly broad brush. How does it sit with the right to travel ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013

    I am still trying to get my head around the phrase used by Dr Berry Kiely of the Pro-life Campaign - a perinatal hospice. Does she intend that women carrying terminally ill or non-viable foetuses should be held in one of these until the baby is born or still-born? Fortunately we do not have such a place in Ireland - yet.

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