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Thread: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

  1. #136
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    What's an assessed news report?
    News reports which you have not read and digested. Or if you have done, you make no attempt to share your conclusions.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #137
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    No harm questioning main stream sources... I'd say very few considered 1916 anything but a treasonous riot at the time.

  3. #138
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is there any balanced or neutral reporting on Venezuela you could recommend ?
    This has some good critical stuff from left angles but also some apologism for the zombie (my description) stupidly heading in a stalinist direction corrupted ruling bureacrats (the jury is out on the degree of corruption as the oil price drop was a huge blow, etc) . Short version it is in between external and internal factors, external meddling and internal incompetence (huge over reliance on oil)
    https://venezuelanalysis.com/

    There is also https://www.aporrea.org/ a local Independent Left outlet which fell out with the government some time ago in Spanish
    Last edited by GregTimo; 28-04-2017 at 11:14 AM.

  4. #139
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is there any balanced or neutral reporting on Venezuela you could recommend ?
    TeleSUR English covers Latin American issues from a progressive angle.

  5. #140
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    TeleSUR English covers Latin American issues from a progressive angle.
    And is part Venezuela government funded https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeleSUR

    Not the worst for international news , they're obviously not going to be 'biting the hand'

  6. #141
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    News reports which you have not read and digested. Or if you have done, you make no attempt to share your conclusions.
    OK, got it!......includes everything you have not read, plus some or all of what you have read. That narrows it down a bit.....The suggestions of reading material you've received have offered the disclaimer as being from a left perspective. They can be just as imperfect as the right. I prefer not to use either.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  7. #142
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Fraxinus View Post
    No harm questioning main stream sources... I'd say very few considered 1916 anything but a treasonous riot at the time.
    No harm in questioning at all, but if you are going to imply that all the MSM is biased against Venezuela then you need to supply some evidence, and extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.1916 not really applicable since it was the actions of the British in executing, rather than the actions of the rebels, that spurred public opinion to change.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  8. #143
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    [*]What happened to the socialist dream in Venezuela? In short, Hugo Chávez so aggressively overregulated the economy during his presidency that he bestowed Venezuela with both the “most punitively misconceived microeconomic policies” and “the world’s most mindlessly self-destructive macroeconomic policies.” [Vox / Francisco Toro]
    For god sake they only tried implementing progressive taxation in the last few years after the oil price drop (until then only a flat rate of income tax). Measures like the currency exchange mess were probably doomed by the corruption that came with the over reliance on oil. The place was more chaotic than regulated. A sad mess. One lesson, dont surround yourself with 'yes men' (and 'yes women') ? Another, do not rely too much on one man
    Last edited by GregTimo; 29-04-2017 at 10:36 AM.

  9. #144
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    You say "tried" implementing a progressive tax system. Sounds like if was unsuccessful.

    http://www.tradingeconomics.com/vene...ncome-tax-rate

    Venezuela has similar population to Saudi, but even more oil reserves. Granted it's more difficult and expensive to extract. I'm not saying that the average Venezuelan should be a wealthy as the average Saudi or Norwegian, but they shouldn't be as poor as they are either.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  10. #145
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    • If you, like me (Naomi), are regularly stressing out about the state of Venezuela, you’ll recall that the country took a major step in the direction of authoritarianism back in March. Its president, Nicolás Maduro, and his supporters on the Supreme Court dissolved the power of the National Assembly, effectively giving the court the power to write rules itself and giving Maduro nearly one-man rule. [New York Times / Nicholas Casey, Patricia Torres]




    • In the weeks since, the country has been gripped by a sustained protest movement, which has at times seen violence. On Wednesday, a police officer was shot at a protest, and today it was announced that he died from his wounds, but it seems the majority of those killed are protestors. The total number of people who have died in these protests is now up to 36. [ABC News / Associated Press / Hannah Dreier]




    • The Maduro regime’s response has been (in the words of the Washington Post editorial board) “brutally uncompromising.” It has used tear gas and rubber bullets on protesters. It announced that it intends to withdraw from the Organization of American States because of demands to obey a democratic charter. [Washington Post / Editorial Board]




    • And on Monday, Maduro announced he would be convening an assembly to rewrite the constitution. As Nicholas Casey noted for the New York Times, while it’s “unclear precisely how Mr. Maduro wanted the Constitution changed,” some experts posit that a constitutional assembly might be a tool to further weaken the opposition-controlled National Assembly — and essentially put an end to legislative elections. [New York Times / Nicholas Casey]




    • It’s worth remembering, as writer Hugo Prieto points out for the Times, that protest in Venezuela is born of economic desperation as much as political frustration. “One protester, a woman in her 60s, sought refuge from the tear gas by hiding behind a tree. We opened the door for her, but she wasn’t too happy about taking shelter; she felt that she was shirking her duty as a citizen by not facing the attackers openly. ‘We can’t do anything if we’re dead, Missus,’ said a young man who obviously sympathized with her. ‘And they’re starving us to death, so nobody can stop me going out on to the streets to protest,’ the woman said.” [New York Times / Hugo Prieto]




    • She isn’t exaggerating; Venezuela’s economic crisis is dramatic. There is nearly 1,000% inflation and food and medical storages have put its lowest-income citizens in danger of a humanitarian crisis. The country’s highest denomination, 100 bolivars, is worth less than 10 US cents. [Guardian / Jonathan Watts]




    • How did oil-rich Venezuela find itself in this predicament? As Francisco Toro writes for Vox, the “punitively misconceived microeconomic policies” and “mindlessly self-destructive macroeconomic policies” of Hugo Chávez positioned the country for an inevitable collapse. [Vox / Francisco Toro]




    • Another way to think about it: The country’s socialist roots rather inconveniently set it up to follow the same populist path toward authoritarianism we’re seeing play out around the world. [New York Times / Max Fisher, Amanda Taub]





    In Venezuela's Chaos, Elites Play a High-Stakes Game for Survival

    New York Times
    Hundreds of thousands of protesters have taken to the streets of Caracas and other cities demanding elections in Venezuela. Credit Meridith ...




    Riven By Fire And Fiery Rhetoric, Venezuela Decides Its Future In ...
    NPR-May 5, 2017
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  11. #146
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    An insider view, and strong objection, on the direction that 'influencers' on Venezuela are, and should be, taking.

    The line of Almagro, Sec Gen of the Organisation of American States (OAS), former Foreign Minister of Uruguay, is apparently the familiar one of sanctions against the "regime" (the Venezuelan people?) presumably with the end in view of regime change.


    On May 17th, amid frenzied activity by the representatives of the OAS member states to try to agree on a ‘Meeting of Consultation’ by ministerial representatives to discuss Venezuela as a “problem of an urgent nature and of common interest”, Mr Almagro pre-empted the purpose and outcome of any such meeting, slated for May 31st, by stating publicly that: “We must get past the notion that dialogue or mediation is a solution to the crisis in Venezuela”. In a letter to the President of the European Parliament, Mr Almagro presented what he, in his individual wisdom, believes should be done. This includes, “targeted sanctions” that would “increase the pressure on the regime to restore the Constitutional order and hold elections”. His statement is an attempt to corner the representatives of member states and to frame the parameters of their discussion and decisions.
    The Organisation of American States (OAS) has lost credibility as a multilateral institution

    Sir Ronald Sanders


    capable of contributing to a resolution of the growing conflict in Venezuela. There are two reasons for this. The primary one is the hostile behaviour toward the Venezuelan government by the Secretary-General, Luis Almagro. The other is the strong position, adopted by a handful but powerful group of countries in the Organisation that has been consistently and openly vexed with the Chavez/Maduro government.
    Despite the caution of other member states, the small but powerful group of countries has repeatedly issued statements that lack balance and portrays them as less than neutral. This has led to alienation of the Venezuelan government, whose involvement in any solution to the Venezuelan issue is vital.

    http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...etary-general/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  12. #147
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    An insider view, and strong objection, on the direction that 'influencers' on Venezuela are, and should be, taking.

    The line of Almagro, Sec Gen of the Organisation of American States (OAS), former Foreign Minister of Uruguay, is apparently the familiar one of sanctions against the "regime" (the Venezuelan people?) presumably with the end in view of regime change.






    http://www.kaieteurnewsonline.com/20...etary-general/
    Almagro was Uruguayan 'foreign minister' under Mujica in the 'Broad Front' (very wide center-left coalition) that still rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Almagro
    Mujica is quoted making an odd statement ;
    'Mujica: Almagro came to the OAS because of my "influence" in Latin America ..
    The former president and current Senator Jose Mujica spoke of the crisis in Venezuela, but declined to comment on the statements of the country's(Venezuela's) foreign minister, Delcy Rodríguez, who described Luis Almagro as "mercenary," "malhechor" and "liar". ...
    Concluding ; '"I would have wanted the conflicts with Venezuela to have been arranged by dialogue," he said, acknowledging that the Caribbean is "brave" because they are "tremendous", "talk too much" and give "too many statements, as if the world Declarations "

    http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion...nfluencia.html

  13. #148
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by GregTimo View Post
    Almagro was Uruguayan 'foreign minister' under Mujica in the 'Broad Front' (very wide center-left coalition) that still rules https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Almagro
    Mujica is quoted making an odd statement ;
    'Mujica: Almagro came to the OAS because of my "influence" in Latin America ..
    The former president and current Senator Jose Mujica spoke of the crisis in Venezuela, but declined to comment on the statements of the country's(Venezuela's) foreign minister, Delcy Rodríguez, who described Luis Almagro as "mercenary," "malhechor" and "liar". ...
    Concluding ; '"I would have wanted the conflicts with Venezuela to have been arranged by dialogue," he said, acknowledging that the Caribbean is "brave" because they are "tremendous", "talk too much" and give "too many statements, as if the world Declarations "

    http://www.elpais.com.uy/informacion...nfluencia.html
    Does he smell the money ?

    Any reason to believe that we are not just witnessing the usual shove towards regime change?

    Destabilisation of the economy, sanctions, shift of ref. to 'government' or 'state' to 'regime', 24/7 negative press/blackguarding of the target state.... ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #149
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Does he smell the money ?

    Any reason to believe that we are not just witnessing the usual shove towards regime change?

    Destabilisation of the economy, sanctions, shift of ref. to 'government' or 'state' to 'regime', 24/7 negative press/blackguarding of the target state.... ?
    Who knows what in hell is going on. The Chavist leadership told many what they wanted to hear while getting lazy to corrupt and were likely clueless all along . I would compare them to FF/Labour in practice , doing especially loud bolshie sounding statements . They were lead astray in part by the local stalinists , but I think the culture was just too corrupt and addicted to the oil wealth mostly. Of any destablisation , mostly probably from within with the strike of the former ruling class . There is no doubt some coming from the USA , but probably not critical . Very depressing situation , it is likely too late to rescue, hopefully the 'opposition' might out clueless the government side

  15. #150
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    Default Re: US Attempts to Destabilise Venezuela Post Chavez

    Quote Originally Posted by GregTimo View Post
    . They were lead astray in part by the local stalinists ...
    Hmmmm ...

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...go-Chavez.html

    Was always going to end badly.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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