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Thread: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    The penitentials were handbooks for priests used in private confession throughout western Europe from the early sixth through the eleventh centuries composed of lists of sins and their corresponding recommended penances. Through the penitentials it is possible to gain a glimpse into the daily lives of early medieval people through the sins they confessed to and which were eventually included in the handbooks. This study will examine how the penitentials were used as teaching tools for the Christianization of sexual morality and as an apparatus for maintaining the separateness between the carnal and the spiritual necessary for the holy to coexist with the sexual. This study will take the form of a closer examination of smaller specific categories of deviance: the nocturnal emissions of clerics, sexual relations during menstruation and pregnancy, homosexuality, bestiality, incest, and adultery. What the penitentials have to say regarding each of these topics will be systematically analyzed for patterns both geographically and temporally as well as being placed within its medieval context.

    LINK Pdf - Transgressing the Boundaries of Holiness: Sexual Deviance in
    the Early Medieval Penitential Handbooks of Ireland, England
    and France 500-1000
    Interesting read. Thank you!

    Is this a Masters/PhD thesis out of some University library or is it published in a Specialty Journal?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    Interesting read. Thank you!

    Is this a Masters/PhD thesis out of some University library or is it published in a Specialty Journal?
    A Master's Dissertation, Seton Hall University.

    Seems to be cited nearly a hundred times from Religious groups Link to GLBT Queer History LINK
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Clare County Council has apologised.

    http://www.clarepeople.com/2013/04/0...ry-committals/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    The Quirke Report is out, recommending a fund of €58 million, counselling and a medical card, amongst other things. JFM Research/Claire McGettrick has responded.


    Press Release, 26th June 2013, 7.30pm


    Justice for Magdalenes Research response to Magdalen Commission Report

    Justice for Magdalenes Research (JFM Research), the survivor advocacy group, broadly welcomes the publication of The Magdalen Commission Report written by Mr Justice John Quirke and published this afternoon. The Report satisfies many of the questions and concerns we shared with Mr Justice Quirke through our various submissions. A few issues remain outstanding, however, today is another important day in the campaign to bring justice to all the survivors of the Magdalene Laundries.

    In particular, JFM Research welcomes the Report’s recommendations providing for contributory pensions, lump sum payments, enhanced medical cards, and a dedicated unit to ensure easy access to services and supports. These measures go some way toward compensating for the women’s experiences of arbitrary detention, compulsory or forced labour, and cruel, degrading treatment or punishment. However, JFM Research is also mindful that the recommendations of both the United Nations Committee Against Torture (UNCAT) and the Irish Human Rights Commission (IHRC) to establish a prompt, thorough and independent investigation have not been implemented.

    We acknowledge and welcome that the scheme will provide advocates for women still under the care of the religious congregations and/or the HSE. However, JFM Research is concerned on this point and strongly recommends that the advocates are independent and independently appointed.

    In welcoming the dedicated unit, JFM Research strongly recommends that issues of access to and upkeep of Magdalene graves, concerns surrounding grave records, as well as the provision of copies of the McAleese Report to all survivors be part of its remit. JFM Research further recommends that relatives of deceased women are enabled to serve on the proposed advisory body or committee. The adult children of Magdalene women (many of whom are adopted people) continue to live with the legacy of these institutions, and it is important that their voices be acknowledged as part of this on-going process of restorative justice.

    JFM Research acknowledges that there is no time limit in order to apply to the Scheme, but, keeping in mind the age profile of survivors, we still hope that the Scheme is immediately advertised at home and abroad, especially so that women in Ireland’s Diaspora can avail of redress and compensation. It is also important that the Scheme, which provides enhanced medical cards to women living in Ireland, must ensure directly equivalent supports for women living in different jurisdictions (e.g., women struggling to fund health care in the United States).

    JFM Research looks forward to learning who will serve as the Scheme’s administrator and under what conditions s/he will operate. Likewise, we anticipate that further information will be forthcoming on the proposed “appeals process,” and in particular who will serve as the “single agreed independent person” and again under what conditions s/he will operate.

    JFM Research welcomes Mr Justice Quirke’s acknowledgement of the “traumatic effect of admission and incarceration” on survivors’ “security..., confidence and ...self-esteem.” We further welcome the acknowledgement of the “adverse effect upon the education, perceived reputation, subsequent health, life, lifestyle, confidence and self-esteem of the Magdalen women”. We thank Mr Justice Quirke for the sensitivity displayed towards the women, particularly in the language and terminology used in his Report.

    We note that application to the restorative justice scheme is based on women agreeing to waive their rights to take legal action against the State. We believe that the State-funded legal advice promised is essential in this regard to ensure the women are fully informed. We also note that this waiver of rights does not preclude actions against the relevant religious orders.

    JFM Research takes this opportunity to thank Mr Justice Quirke for the care and attention he and his team have taken to complete this important task.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    McGarr on primetime tonight

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    He's on late debate actually along with Buttimer and reps from both survivors groups.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Its not a fortune, presumably its as well as full state pension rights and not instead of, there is also the medical card. Its not a fortune but it is full recognition of the harm done.

    We note that application to the restorative justice scheme is based on women agreeing to waive their rights to take legal action against the State. We believe that the State-funded legal advice promised is essential in this regard to ensure the women are fully informed. We also note that this waiver of rights does not preclude actions against the relevant religious orders.


    Very important.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Nothing from any of the four orders who ran these slave camps and benefitted from them.

    "They should be taken to Court and made pay" - Josephine Meade, a woman who worked in the laundries is being interviewed on RTE Drivetime and clearly very angry.
    She believes

    The Minister for Justice says "there is no point in being abusive" about those in the Orders.

    An extraordinary word to choose really, about people outraged by the conduct of the Orders.

    Shatter also misinformed the Dail by saying that the McAleese Report is comprehensive. It excluded all of the research submitted by Justice for Magdalenes.

    One hundred and thirty women who worked in the laundries are still "In the care" of these Orders, he said.

    Has anyone offered them an alternative ?

    Shatter says " I can't roll up in a tank to the gates of the Orders"

    He "Hopes they will reconsider"
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Nothing from any of the four orders who ran these slave camps and benefitted from them.

    "They should be taken to Court and made pay" - Josephine Meade, a woman who worked in the laundries is being interviewed on RTE Drivetime and clearly very angry.
    She believes

    The Minister for Justice says "there is no point in being abusive" about those in the Orders.

    An extraordinary word to choose really, about people outraged by the conduct of the Orders.

    Shatter also misinformed the Dail by saying that the McAleese Report is comprehensive. It excluded all of the research submitted by Justice for Magdalenes.

    One hundred and thirty women who worked in the laundries are still "In the care" of these Orders, he said.

    Has anyone offered them an alternative ?

    Shatter says " I can't roll up in a tank to the gates of the Orders"

    He "Hopes they will reconsider"



    Quite simple Mr. Shatter, time to reel them and the Vatican in, freeze their bank accounts, break up their Trusts designed to hide assets away, seize the assets, offer them free passage back to Rome.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    If the govt are serious about properly compensating the victims they will seize all assets belonging to the orders involved, which will probably be few enough because they will have salted their loot away as soon as the truth started to emerge.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Shatter this morning on RTE "asks the Orders to reflect"
    He claims that "Professor McAleese has written a report" (Incorrect. Her husband did it)
    He asks the Orders to "get involved in the process of reconciliation" - which has been entirely rejected by the women who worked in the laundries.
    He claims that the 130 women still incarcerated with the nuns are "being very well cared for" by the nuns - on what evidence ? I read about one who could not even get false teeth fitted.

    Has anyone inspected ? Has anyone offered them an alternative?

    Tbh. I would wonder if he has bothered to read the report or to inform himself in any way about the outcome.

    Far from being reconciled, the women are again infuriated.

    Now he is on about hiring more Gardaí. Now wants to send a mobile company to Syria ????? This was discussed on July 1st apparently.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Shatter this morning on RTE "asks the Orders to reflect"
    He claims that "Professor McAleese has written a report" (Incorrect. Her husband did it)
    He asks the Orders to "get involved in the process of reconciliation" - which has been entirely rejected by the women who worked in the laundries.
    He claims that the 130 women still incarcerated with the nuns are "being very well cared for" by the nuns - on what evidence ? I read about one who could not even get false teeth fitted.

    Has anyone inspected ? Has anyone offered them an alternative?

    Tbh. I would wonder if he has bothered to read the report or to inform himself in any way about the outcome.

    Far from being reconciled, the women are again infuriated.

    Now he is on about hiring more Gardaí. Now wants to send a mobile company to Syria ????? This was discussed on July 1st apparently.
    The McAleese report is not much more than a whitewash, and while I support what action is proposed, its little enough for women who spent years subject to the whim of the nuns.

    Shatter appears to be asking the orders he should be telling them in no uncertain terms and reminding them that there is already a law relating to the confiscation of wealth gained by illegal means. I think its called criminal assets.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by bernadette View Post
    The McAleese report is not much more than a whitewash, and while I support what action is proposed, its little enough for women who spent years subject to the whim of the nuns.

    Shatter appears to be asking the orders he should be telling them in no uncertain terms and reminding them that there is already a law relating to the confiscation of wealth gained by illegal means. I think its called criminal assets.
    False imprisonment, abduction, enslavement ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    False imprisonment, abduction, enslavement ?
    All three. It just infuriates me I understand one of the reasons they have given for not paying up is that they are looking after some one hundred women, these would be those women who were so institutionalized they could not return to independent life, may never have experienced independence. Nor it seems are the nuns willing to say if the govt pays them to look after the women.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Magdalene Laundries: Compensation, Payment and Redress.....

    Joan & Mary Lou are on Newstalk now

    Joan says she is "disappointed" at the Orders, and hopes they "pause and reflect on the message they are sending out". Says she does not know if Shatter knows what their assets are.

    Mary Lou says the McAleese report was inadequate, the Orders have taken their cue from the government. Expressing "disappointment" is not good enough.
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

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