Page 2 of 23 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 335

Thread: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

  1. #16
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    They are being mentioned - although, as yet, I have not heard of any investigation that has reached conclusions on what may have caused their deaths. The copycat effects from over dramatic press headlines should certainly be looked at as a potential contributor (based on the findings of substantial research).

    The Oireachtas Committee that met in private reportedly decided not to look at the situation of politicians.
    .
    (I added more to the post above before after you responded)

    If you read the link to the news report in Huffington, you will see that one of the children threatened suicide on FB, before she did it, so it's not too much of a stretch in that case at least. But, regardless of the outcome of those investigations, I don't think it is too hard to imagine that bullying is going to be a major problem online, given the nature of teenagers, and the bullying that goes on in the real world, where there is much more supervision.

    Just as there is rightly a difference being recognized between free speech, political speech and commercial speech, there must also be a difference recognized between children and adults.

    Naturally, parents and teachers have a duty to monitor children's access, in the real world - but social media companies also have a duty to protect their young users. And with the rise of mobile devices, there is less and less ability on the part of parents or guardians to monitor or limit access.
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 19-01-2013 at 02:26 PM.

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Coalition View Post
    (I added more to the post above before after you responded)

    If you read the link to the news report in Huffington, you will see that one of the children threatened suicide on FB, before she did it, so it's not too much of a stretch in that case at least. But, regardless of the outcome of those investigations, I don't think it is too hard to imagine that bullying is going to be a major problem online, given the nature of teenagers, and the bullying that goes on in the real world, where there is much more supervision.

    Just as there is rightly a difference being recognized between free speech, political speech and commercial speech, there must also be a difference recognized between children and adults.

    Naturally, parents and teachers have a duty to monitor children's access, in the real world - but social media companies also have a duty to protect their young users. And with the rise of mobile devices, there is less and less ability on the part of parents or guardians to monitor or limit access.
    I've read the report on Huffington. It is all second hand (I've had contact with the author) and not based on a post mortem or any other enquiry into that case - just press headlines.

    It is not uncommon for girls to go onto their FB or other pages and complain about having been bullied, to challenge the bulliers and look for support. ---- this is not in itself evidence of "cyberbullying" - the bullying reportedly took place physically, off Face Book, and was a nasty attack. Imo, this sort of action should be looked on as a warning signal that someone is feeling very desperate and may be pointing the finger of blame while planning an act of self destruction.

    I think I remember a case in which the Irish Times published an article by a young woman who stated she had been depressed and bullied in her work place and she took her life very soon after publication. Yet no one is making the allegation that she was "killed by bullying by the Irish Times."

    If someone goes public and says they are being bullied, they should be given supports asap, and their complaint taken seriously.

    Many young people use internet chat rooms, both general and support services, to help them deal with bullying, depression and other life problems. They are always advised to do this anonymously.

    The internet is part of life, and of complex social interactions. I know of no case I can think of in which young people are said to have harmed themselves as a result of online bullying by strangers.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 19-01-2013 at 02:45 PM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Government legislation about to be passed on bullying in schools.

    http://www.thejournal.ie/dail-to-vot...e=twitter_self
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Brian Cowen reportedly is considering a complaint to the Press Ombudsman about alleged invasion of privacy in the Daily Mail.

    My feeling is that this is part of the push by Alan Shatter to bring forward the very restrictive Privacy Bill 2006.

    The Independent Report on this quotes an anonymous / unattributed source suggesting that the Committee wants to extend its remit to the Press.

    This is not unexpected and I have pointed out from the beginning that the Press in participating in the war on social media is creating a rod that will be used on its own back.

    The Oireachtas Committee on Transport and Communications is to invite submissions and expressions of interest from individuals and groups. These will then be followed by private and public hearings.

    The issue was highlighted at the funeral of Minister of State for Agriculture Shane McEntee, who took his own life. His brother Gerry referred to the "flak" that his late brother had endured through social media.

    Last night there were tentative indications that an attempt may be made to broaden the inquiry to involve the traditional media. However, any such move is likely to be fiercely resisted by both the broadcast and print media.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 20-01-2013 at 11:03 AM.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  5. #20
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I've read the report on Huffington. It is all second hand (I've had contact with the author) and not based on a post mortem or any other enquiry into that case - just press headlines.

    It is not uncommon for girls to go onto their FB or other pages and complain about having been bullied, to challenge the bulliers and look for support. ---- this is not in itself evidence of "cyberbullying" - the bullying reportedly took place physically, off Face Book, and was a nasty attack. Imo, this sort of action should be looked on as a warning signal that someone is feeling very desperate and may be pointing the finger of blame while planning an act of self destruction.

    I think I remember a case in which the Irish Times published an article by a young woman who stated she had been depressed and bullied in her work place and she took her life very soon after publication. Yet no one is making the allegation that she was "killed by bullying by the Irish Times."

    If someone goes public and says they are being bullied, they should be given supports asap, and their complaint taken seriously.

    Many young people use internet chat rooms, both general and support services, to help them deal with bullying, depression and other life problems. They are always advised to do this anonymously.

    The internet is part of life, and of complex social interactions. I know of no case I can think of in which young people are said to have harmed themselves as a result of online bullying by strangers.
    All of this is going to depend on how the internet is viewed, legally, at a very basic level.

    There are three basic options for describing, and ultimately regulating, the new reality we live in.

    1. The Internet and the 'real world' are viewed as two totally separate and distinct, albeit interlinked, universes, each with its own separate set of rules and regulations.

    2. The Internet is totally a part of the real world - and should be subject to all the rules and regulations of the real world (which you seem to favour Cactus)

    3. The union of the Internet and the real world has created a totally new universe, or singularity - called the 'electroverse' by one author. It requires a whole new set of rules and regulations, capable of governing both equally. This is perhaps a different way of describing number 2, but it has as a starting point the recognition that the current rules of the real world are completely inadequate, and will all have to go, in order to reflect the new reality.

    I like the electroverse description, by Curtis E.A. Karnow

    This electroverse is a concatenation of endlessly looping data and symbols that do nothing ultimately but refer to themselves and to combinations of themselves. Here, the physical and natural worlds are leveled, electrocuted, no more than a series of signs and symbols.
    This is the nebulotic data soup. It is an unrestrained, frenzied hyperbole of text, sound and graphics, each moment a cut and paste morphed version of others, an endless processing and transmission of the bitstream. Memory is a looping self- replicating tape: there is no past, or an infinity of pasts.
    Here we have the infinite geography of the electronic cosmos operating at lightspeed: communication so fast and transparent that the elements, the actors, the agents of communication are swept up into the transmission stream and loose all identity but for their existence as transmission agents, each a repeating station, each no more than input and output; each one a copper wire linked into other wires, until we have a single endlessly looping strand, truly e pluribus unum. The electroverse is zero culture, inhabited by android shadow-selves who fear no law, abide no punishment, and feel no guilt.
    It is in this digital soup, this is a hyper-relational environment, that we see the death of the barrier. We have no cells, we have no inside and outside, we have no public world and we have no private world. What we do have is the network and the death of dichotomy. This is fatal for the legal system, which depends for its very life on the existence of barriers- after all, that's what the law does: it utters the line between this and that, and punishes the transgressor.
    But our android shadows cannot be punished.
    Now that's poetry.

    In terms of bullying, the bullying that takes place in the real world, and on the internet are totally different - even if they involve the same people, with the same motivations, even making similar statements.

    Words spoken in the real world disappear instantly, except into memory. They are only heard by those in close proximity.

    Words 'spoken' on the internet do not disappear. They can be repeated infinitely and transferred by multiple people. They never go away, unless they are removed by the speaker, or some higher authority.

    In addition, other words can be built on top of them, causing a cumulative effect - multiplying the damage they cause, exponentially. That damage is multiplied by the knowledge that they are being witnessed by an potentially infinite number of people, and will be into the future, indefinitely.

    It reminds of a case now being taken in the US, by people who have been arrested, and then had the charges dropped. However, their mug shots are made public, and will be there, forever, on the internet. causing them immeasurable damage in their professional and private lives.

    The normal real world rules of bullying of children, by children, are useless on the internet. A whole new approach is needed, along with a whole new set of enforcement mechanisms - or we will be seeing a lot more tragedy in the real world.
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 20-01-2013 at 12:12 PM.

  6. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Coalition View Post
    ...
    In terms of bullying, the bullying that takes place in the real world, and on the internet are totally different - even if they involve the same people, with the same motivations, even making similar statements.

    Words spoken in the real world disappear instantly, except into memory. They are only heard by those in close proximity.

    Words 'spoken' on the internet do not disappear. They can be repeated infinitely and transferred by multiple people. They never go away, unless they are removed by the speaker, or some higher authority.

    In addition, other words can be built on top of them, causing a cumulative effect - multiplying the damage they cause, exponentially. That damage is multiplied by the knowledge that they are being witnessed by an potentially infinite number of people, and will be into the future, indefinitely.

    It reminds of a case now being taken in the US, by people who have been arrested, and then had the charges dropped. However, their mug shots are made public, and will be there, forever, on the internet. causing them immeasurable damage in their professional and private lives.

    The normal real world rules of bullying of children, by children, are useless on the internet. A whole new approach is needed, along with a whole new set of enforcement mechanisms - or we will be seeing a lot more tragedy in the real world.
    I don't agree that that distinction exists. The internet is just another means of transmission of written, photographic and aural communication. Words written in newsprint don't disappear. Reports that go out on TV are repeated from one person to another.
    Defamatory news stories can be held in clippings files for decades.

    Sadly for anyone defamed, the damage of an initial false newspaper headline seen by many thousands and repeated, or on a tv broadcast, is not likely ever to be wiped out. Press clippings sit in files for decades and are referred back to.

    In most cases, internet material, both in its original location and in cache, can be removed - unlike in the case of newsprint or a tv broadcast, which might have had a huge audience.

    Also, on the internet, unlike in traditional media, there is normally a means of instant reply, by comment, on a thread, by counter blog linked, that is completely lacking in the traditional media, where any apology of retraction is often weeks after the event.

    An internet post generally does not carry the authority of traditional media, and is not given the same weight.

    I think that a rights and principles based approach is needed in which freedom of speech / discussion / expression is safeguarded, as well as someone's right not to be defamed.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  7. #22
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I don't agree that that distinction exists. The internet is just another means of transmission of written, photographic and aural communication. Words written in newsprint don't disappear. Reports that go out on TV are repeated from one person to another.
    Defamatory news stories can be held in clippings files for decades.
    Children are not publishing newspaper articles about each other, or going on radio or TV to abuse each other.

    They are, however, using a medium that is as powerful, if not more powerful than TV, radio, and print put together - but without any editors, producers, etc to limit or control the content.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Sadly for anyone defamed, the damage of an initial false newspaper headline seen by many thousands and repeated, or on a tv broadcast, is not likely ever to be wiped out. Press clippings sit in files for decades and are referred back to.

    Yes, but remember that there are numerous third party checks and balances in place, to prevent defamation, before publication. Look at RTE. They have a massive staff and legal advisors, which in most, though clearly not all cases, prevent defamation.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    In most cases, internet material, both in its original location and in cache, can be removed - unlike in the case of newsprint or a tv broadcast, which might have had a huge audience.
    That is after the fact, and usually only after a long drawn out process. Social media companies are notoriously bad for responding to complaints, and slow in intervening in these situations. Even when it is removed, a lot of damage has already been done.


    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Also, on the internet, unlike in traditional media, there is normally a means of instant reply, by comment, on a thread, by counter blog linked, that is completely lacking in the traditional media, where any apology of retraction is often weeks after the event.
    The other side of that is that normal media does not allow for the direct swarming that can occur. Once a person is targeted on social media - the attack can frenzy to dozens, hundreds or thousands of views, or comments, which are much more damaging, going viral in no time at all. People viewing an article in the paper, and people leaving direct comments on someone's personal page are two totally different experiences.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    An internet post generally does not carry the authority of traditional media, and is not given the same weight.
    How many children get attacked in the print media, by other children?

    Like I said, I am referring in this part of the debate to children, being attacked by children. A lot of this is relevant to adults, and the wider debate. But this is also a unique problem, and one that is very very serious indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I think that a rights and principles based approach is needed in which freedom of speech / discussion / expression is safeguarded, as well as someone's right not to be defamed.
    I think it is bigger than reputation and defamation. I think this kind of bullying is indeed an offence or attack on the person; a criminal act, not simply a matter of suing for damages to collect afterwards - but something that should be prevented from the outset. What good are any damages once a child is dead?
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 20-01-2013 at 01:08 PM.

  8. #23
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    @Anti-coalition - you mentioned children in the last lines of your post, but I assumed that your remarks above were general.

    There is research that shows that face to face bullying experienced by children is much more damaging than bullying online, so why no attention to that ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #24
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    No worries, I was following on from your post number 17 above, which was mostly about children. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 20-01-2013 at 01:09 PM.

  10. #25
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    WIth regards to the larger issue of anonymity, and so forth, here is an interesting story from RTE, 17th Jan. I don't think it has been posted, but apologies if it has:

    Data Protection Commissioner to audit all major social media firms in Ireland

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0117/dat...ial-media.html

    The Data Protection Commissioner has said he will carry out audits of all the major social networking companies that have operations in Ireland.
    Billy Hawkes said Ireland had a significant responsibility to the rest of Europe, as many of these companies had located their European headquarters in the country and fell under its jurisdiction.
    He said LinkedIn and Twitter would be among those audited.
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 21-01-2013 at 02:56 AM.

  11. #26
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    More on the issue of children cyber-bullying, from the Examiner:

    Facebook ‘too slow’ in acting on abusive page
    Friday, January 11, 2013

    Facebook has been accused of being too slow to act on cyberbullying after a page targeting a 16-year-old Cork girl was left up on the site despite two weeks of complaints from teachers and students at her school.
    This is a clear example of what I described above:

    Staff at Coláiste Choilm in Ballincollig, Co Cork — one of the country’s biggest with more than 1,300 students — had to identify the student behind the page before the abusive material could be taken down two days ago. The girl was subjected to nasty comments from numerous people soon after the ‘Coláiste Choilm Memes’ Facebook page was set up in mid-December. She was then subjected to offensive sexual references by a number of people when she asked for posts to be removed. The social networking site said last night it could have removed the content sooner and has apologised. Principal Michelle Sliney said it was the school rather than Facebook which got the page’s content cleared.
    Legislation is not necessarily required to solve this problem. Facebook could and should agree protocols, and spend more money policing these matters themselves.

  12. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    heart of Europe
    Posts
    22,829

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    I wonder what would happen if a lot of people started using China's twitter

    In June, Sina announced an English version of Sina Weibo would be developed and launched, where the contents would still be controlled by Chinese law.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sina_Weibo

    http://www.weiboenglish.com

    Would Chinese law care about Irish sensitivities?
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  13. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    78,412

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Coalition View Post
    No worries, I was following on from your post number 17 above, which was mostly about children. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
    No problem - just a misunderstanding.

    Over the last few days, there has been a conference on bullying at school and also a spate of quite sensible articles on the subject of cyberbullying.
    The silly scapegoating of social media has waned. That is not unusual with this kind of journalistic event. Most people will not read the sensible articles and the job of setting a restrictive regime in place has been launched.

    Facebook, as part of this exchange, has said it will not moderate posts unless reported, as is the case now. It's own name policy is blatantly a commercial issue in that it is selling your identify to advertisers and that is what makes it profitable. Germany, and other states with a strong privacy ethos (post Stasi) will continue to oppose.

    It is not only an Irish agenda, it is international.

    Both the EU and the US want more restrictive regimes, but they also are driven by commercial interests as well as security and are at loggerheads.

    On the other side, citizens are becoming more aware of all these issues and of rights.

    It will be an ongoing three cornered battle of people, governments and corpororations.

    By its very nature, the internet's technology strives for connection, and people also strive for connection, so its control is like trying to collect water in a collander. Look at South Korea and what happened to their own-name policy, that was gone in a year.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #29
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    I wonder what would happen if a lot of people started using China's twitter




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sina_Weibo

    http://www.weiboenglish.com

    Would Chinese law care about Irish sensitivities?
    It depends on which Irish people you are talking about. Bertie Ahern (and many in Fianna Fail) would certainly embrace it. He still loves to visit China, where he is still treated like an emperor.

    Remember this quote?

    "Bertie Ahern said he would be more than glad to have the powers of Beijing's mayor when it comes to building roads and incinerators. Instead of having to deal with a myriad of planning boards followed by High Court and Supreme Court challenges, he could simply decree it so."
    Sunday Business Post – 23rd January 2005

    I am sure he could have expanded on that too, given the opportunity.

  15. #30
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    534

    Default Re: The 'Social Media' Oireachtas Committee begins its proceedings

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Over the last few days, there has been a conference on bullying at school and also a spate of quite sensible articles on the subject of cyberbullying.
    More on that conference, from the Examiner:

    Child law experts call for update to policies on cyberbullying
    Friday, January 18, 2013
    As part of obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child (UNCRC), the Education Department needs to urgently update its 20-year-old anti-bullying policy to include cyberbullying and teach children about their rights online, according to a child law expert.
    This follows the NCYI Conference last November:

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/new-m...ce-on-cyberbul

    The National Youth Council of Ireland (NYCI) is today holding a conference on internet safety and cyberbullying in Dublin, with the aim of empowering teenagers to use digital and social media more safely.The event, which is taking place at Science Gallery, has been given the name 'Screenagers' and comes in the wake of the deaths of two teenagers who took their own lives in recent months, with their deaths thought to have been linked to cyberbullying.
    Good to see a strong reaction on this.
    Last edited by Anti-Coalition; 21-01-2013 at 08:49 AM.

Page 2 of 23 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us