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Thread: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    The U.K and U.S. to "assist the opposition."
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The U.K and U.S. to "assist the opposition."

    The fact that this takes place against a backdrop of what seemed like the increasing likelihood of peace negotiations just serves to underscore the US's indifference to any amount of loss of life that may take place for it to meet its own ends.


    If anything, the prospect of peace negotiations might have motivated this: a peace brokered by Russia that allowed a transitional government with some members of the Assad regime would be less desirable for America than having the whole edifice ripped down so the country could be taken out of Russia's sphere of influence altogether, even if that means wading through rivers of blood.

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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    The fact that this takes place against a backdrop of what seemed like the increasing likelihood of peace negotiations just serves to underscore the US's indifference to any amount of loss of life that may take place for it to meet its own ends.


    If anything, the prospect of peace negotiations might have motivated this: a peace brokered by Russia that allowed a transitional government with some members of the Assad regime would be less desirable for America than having the whole edifice ripped down so the country could be taken out of Russia's sphere of influence altogether, even if that means wading through rivers of blood.
    There is a lot of evidence that the real local opposition never wanted any kind of civil war, and was prepared to take a lot of losses without military retaliation.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    The fact that this takes place against a backdrop of what seemed like the increasing likelihood of peace negotiations just serves to underscore the US's indifference to any amount of loss of life that may take place for it to meet its own ends.


    If anything, the prospect of peace negotiations might have motivated this: a peace brokered by Russia that allowed a transitional government with some members of the Assad regime would be less desirable for America than having the whole edifice ripped down so the country could be taken out of Russia's sphere of influence altogether, even if that means wading through rivers of blood.
    America would take the view that Russian intervention would be a decline in their influence in the area. Syria is without a doubt going to get a transitional government which will be a puppet government a regime friendlier to US interests.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    The fact that this takes place against a backdrop of what seemed like the increasing likelihood of peace negotiations just serves to underscore the US's indifference to any amount of loss of life that may take place for it to meet its own ends.


    If anything, the prospect of peace negotiations might have motivated this: a peace brokered by Russia that allowed a transitional government with some members of the Assad regime would be less desirable for America than having the whole edifice ripped down so the country could be taken out of Russia's sphere of influence altogether, even if that means wading through rivers of blood.
    What increasing likelihood of peace talks? I don’t know what basis you have for claiming any Russian, UN, or other, led talks were about to begin, much less succeed. The rebels have spurned both US and Russian overtures.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    What increasing likelihood of peace talks? I don’t know what basis you have for claiming any Russian, UN, or other, led talks were about to begin, much less succeed. The rebels have spurned both US and Russian overtures.
    Which rebels ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Which rebels ?
    Free Syrian Army.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    Free Syrian Army.
    The stars of the Atlantic photos ?

    We have had this discussion before. The Syrian opposition to Assad doesn't come down to "an army."

    Panetta described it better. There is no such thing as a unified Syrian rebel army, and by far the biggest proportion of the anti Assad opposition is local and unarmed.

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...rmy#post255167
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Ceannaire View Post
    There does not appear to be an existing thread on the sitaution in Syria, not one that I found anyway, so I thought I'd raise the topic to provoke discussion.
    good choice to start


    What concerns me is how misrepresented the situation there is by the Western media, and how this may represent a softening up of public opinion in favour of an imperialist invasion.

    The most likely explanation for America's motive is to take out a long-time Soviet and now Russian ally and increase its strength in the Middle East under the guise of "humanitarianism".

    is this guy for real??

    ...'favor of an 'imperialist invasion'?' would you get over it already about our 'imperialism'!
    .

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The stars of the Atlantic photos ?

    We have had this discussion before. The Syrian opposition to Assad doesn't come down to "an army."

    Panetta described it better. There is no such thing as a unified Syrian rebel army, and by far the biggest proportion of the anti Assad opposition is local and unarmed.

    http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...rmy#post255167
    How are these non SFA factions manifesting their opposition?
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    What increasing likelihood of peace talks? I don’t know what basis you have for claiming any Russian, UN, or other, led talks were about to begin, much less succeed. The rebels have spurned both US and Russian overtures.
    I never said anything was "about to succeed": you're just putting words in my mouth. This year sees the conflict entering its third year without either Assad or anti-government forces obviously going to win any time soon (in itself something which could arguably be said to make peace talks more likely, before America announced its increase in support for the rebels), and early last month the leader of the "Syrian opposition coalition" offered talks with Assad's vice-president, before the stance was admittedly toughened a few days later. I think I'm justified in saying that this represented an "increase" in the likelihood of peace talks over what the chances would have been previously, as the fact that the idea was even mentioned makes it seem more acceptable as an option.


    At the time the initial offer was made, the US showed how serious it was about peace talks by saying that Assad would have to be held accountable for his crimes. Whilst ideally I would like to see Assad put behind bars along with Henry Kissinger and Donald Rumsfeld, he's clearly going to keep fighting rather than put his own head on a block if that's the only other option, so asking for a peace that involves him being "held accountable" in reality is asking for the war to go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by random new yorker View Post
    good choice to start

    is this guy for real??

    ...'favor of an 'imperialist invasion'?' would you get over it already about our 'imperialism'!
    .

    If you could provide an alternative motivation for America's potential invasion of Syria in terms of altruism I'd be interested to hear it.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    How are these non SFA factions manifesting their opposition?
    Again, we have discussed this before. For twelve months before there was any organised use of "rebel" arms, there were constant unarmed protests ---

    scores of youtubes and live streams over many months, showing noisy and enthusiastic protests (love this jumping/dancing thing they do), mass funerals, the dying and dead, from men to tiny babies, towns and villages being shelled and being raided by military and thugs, Syrian soldiers torturing people and laughing at the dead, and people coming out again the next day and protesting again, under fire, people spelling out non-sectarian and anti sectarian messages to be read from the air, using limited english to try to communicate that they want freedom and equality, posters with messages against terrorism, there are hundreds of items out there on the net that give a bit of an impression of what is really going on.
    There is a socialist and trade union opposition in Syria - of course this is not the type of news that the US Press likes to report.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The U.K and U.S. to "assist the opposition."
    Good.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    America would take the view that Russian intervention would be a decline in their influence in the area. Syria is without a doubt going to get a transitional government which will be a puppet government a regime friendlier to US interests.
    I would hardly call the Muslim Brotherhood "friendly" re. the US. But hey, don't let me stop this site's far left pro Assad, anti western whinge-fest.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Prospect of Invasion of Syria

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Again, we have discussed this before. For twelve months before there was any organised use of "rebel" arms, there were constant unarmed protests ---

    There is a socialist and trade union opposition in Syria - of course this is not the type of news that the US Press likes to report.
    CF, it seems you ideological purity allows you to make the “perfect’ the enemy of the “good’
    It would seem that the leader of the Syrian Opposition Coalition is happy to have US/Western aid go to the Syrian Free Army/

    I have no doubt that there are many in Syria who peacefully protest Assad, but they are almost irrelevant to the problem. If you want to stop the killing you have to engage with those who are doing the killing. The peaceniks aren’t killing anybody.

    ROME — The food rations and medical supplies that Secretary of State John Kerry said Thursday would be provided to the Free Syrian Army mark the first time that the United States has publicly committed itself to sending nonlethal aid to the armed factions that are battling President Bashar al-Assad

    Mr. Assad is “out of time and must be out of power,” Mr. Kerry asserted after meeting here with Moaz al-Khatib, the leader of the Syrian opposition coalition.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/wo...pagewanted=all
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

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