Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 366

Thread: China Bubble About to Burst ?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    meh, define successful.....

    Sorry, mate, but even the lads on welfare here probably have an arguably better standard of life than the Cubans (and yes, I personally know people on welfare).

    While I am all for sharing the proceeds of wealth creation via taxation and ensuring everyone has a decent education, access to healthcare and enough to eat, I do not believe that those who may have worked until their late twenties to gain a Ph.D. or an MBA etc deserve to be paid exactly the same as someone who chose to leave school at 16 and who may be reluctant to do a decent days work (there were 4% persistently unemployable people even during the boom; when we were importing foreign unskilled labour, there's little excuse for that).

    That is not to say that the current crop of people on the Dole are wasters; far from it, in a slump, there are plenty of valid excuses and we need to take good care of those guys

    But a communist utopia is NOT for me. Sorry, but there needs to be some incentive for hard work.

    Can't we adopt the Scandinavian model instead?? I'd really appreciate the cheap childcare.
    wiki rafael correa and ecuador for how a socialist country handles illegal debt and the imf/creditors/mncs/general parasites etc compared to us. Theres one point in favour of socialism. after defaulting in 2008, they grew at 6% in 2009 and 5.4% in 2010.

    With respect thats a total assumption on cuban people's livelihoods. They have free and subsidized access to many quality public services, a cheap cost of living and unemployment is very low. Of course if you want to be a millionaire you wont stay in cuba. But who needs that when every basic need is provided for them by society at large?

    Your assumption that communism means a 16 year old shelf stacker gets the same as an expert of sorts in their thirties is a myth against communism. Who ever said you cant earn more money? Its the old story about the coal miner on 19 roubles and the doctor on 20 roubles. The doctor tells the commissar 'you have to pay me more money than him. people will die if im not around' the commissar says 'well i mean if people dont get coal they'll freeze to death. people will probably die with you around pal. theres 20 roubles for you. shut up!' The point is you can earn more money if ye like, but who needs vast wealth? Who needs to be a millionaire if they can have a good income, do a job they love and have good quality public services for most of their basic needs? Who needs to own a house if they have a lifelong state lease on 50 quid a week or less? I have argued we should have a maximum wage for our public servants and a taxing of all private sector workers at 51.5% above 80k. I dont see why people shouldnt pay high tax if they earn more. 37'000 people earn over 150k. 20'000 public servants earn over 100k. Just a few reforms and crumbs to keep ordinary people happy wont end waiting lists, build CF units or give everyone an adequate wage.

    You might argue the point of working is for an adequate income. I would say it should be for loving what you do as the income should be part and parcel of your job already. Hospital consultants wouldnt be asked by people like me(if we ran the show as they say) to work on 8.65. But they wouldnt be taking home 250k either. The cap of 65k for all public servants and 150-200k for all private sector workers would ensure adequate wage levels for the more qualified and at the same time we could have a much higher minimum wage for those at the bottom.

    BTW as a keynesian you should know the law for full employment. its called reaching 96% of people in work. Its inevitable with seasonal workers, people switching jobs and the underemployed and some disabled workers who only work part time that we would be paying welfare at any rate. BTW of all the nordic countries, only Denmark and Norway have real equality so thats not a perfect system either by any means. Just ask the icelanders q'ing for slice pans or the swedes who've had dole cuts.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Why would one not take the carers allowance if one was acting as a carer?? I think you'd get ordinary unemployment assistance as well. I'm guessing this group is statistically accounted for, possibly with the exception of stay-at-home mothers; but in my experience, many of the stay at home mothers who chose to sit out the boom were partnering men with 6 figure salaries. Those with less moolah stayed at work.

    Yes, probably many would have been briefly in between jobs. However, the 4% has often been cited as "the unemployable"....and they are out there; take a look at the alcoholism and drug dependency figures.
    Again you are generalizing M. the whole reason for alcoholism, drug abuse and welfare abuse is poverty. Capitalism, in any form be that in Iceland atm, Sweden to a small extent, or America at the most extreme, is the cause of poverty in the world. a 5% tax on the 4 trillion a day forex market, equally spreaded to all the 200 or so countries of the world would end global hunger and poverty. Poverty causes crime. Cuba has very low crime rates, as a socialist society tends to have. And no socialist societies are not all equal in poverty either-there's no evidence to support that. before you adapt the mansergh line on this argument. The whole point of communism is to end poverty, aka capitalism.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Griska View Post
    Castro has recently commented that the Cuban model doesn't work anymore and interestingly has stated that the economic blockade cannot alone be blamed.
    If there's proof of that please show me, not that im saying he didnt say that. I would argue it works well to an extent (health, education(illiteracy doesnt exist in cuba anymore), employment, cheap costs for good and services and so on) but that generating income for the country is tough because of the blockade. The ecuadorian model certainly is working very well since their 2008 default. perhaps closer co-operation with fellow socialist govts is the way to go for cuba?

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Apjp, the problem with communism in my view, is not its ideals (which you describe very well). The problem is the degree of coercion that is required in order to get everyone to comply.

    For this reason, some degree of reward based incentive is required. The alternative is well described in Orwell's 1984, and the history of the Soviet Union, etc. Sorry, but "this time it's different" won't work with me any more.

    Norway and Denmark are good models, except that Norway, alone amongst European nations today, is a massive oil and gas exporter and can afford a very high standard of living for its people. Denmark is therefore a better example, but they too have had banking issues.

    I am aware of the 96% employment rule. While you are correct in describing the reasons why people would be temporarily out of work, I am not sufficiently naive to believe that these are the only reasons for the 4%. I have known alcoholics and druggies and they very often augment the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable. There are also the career criminals and those who actually work, but collect benefits as well. I'm not for one instant saying these guys make up a majority of recipients at the moment, but during the boom they may well have done. Ironically, a society with full employment (that 96%) can often afford to indulge these guys with generous benefits.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Apjp, the problem with communism in my view, is not its ideals (which you describe very well). The problem is the degree of coercion that is required in order to get everyone to comply.

    For this reason, some degree of reward based incentive is required. The alternative is well described in Orwell's 1984, and the history of the Soviet Union, etc. Sorry, but "this time it's different" won't work with me any more.

    Norway and Denmark are good models, except that Norway, alone amongst European nations today, is a massive oil and gas exporter and can afford a very high standard of living for its people. Denmark is therefore a better example, but they too have had banking issues.

    I am aware of the 96% employment rule. While you are correct in describing the reasons why people would be temporarily out of work, I am not sufficiently naive to believe that these are the only reasons for the 4%. I have known alcoholics and druggies and they very often augment the ranks of the unemployed and unemployable. There are also the career criminals and those who actually work, but collect benefits as well. I'm not for one instant saying these guys make up a majority of recipients at the moment, but during the boom they may well have done. Ironically, a society with full employment (that 96%) can often afford to indulge these guys with generous benefits.
    In relation to orwell, a great novelist, he prescribed democratic socialism like that ecuador is trying to implement-not social democracy. The communism I want is that of a self governing society with bi monthly local and national referenda and state enterprise and term limits of about 4 by 4 years for the dail and councils. in relation to incentives, why do people need incentives beyond having a job they love, with great conditions and a good wage that they can easily live on? Do you really hate your job that much that you cant imagine having one where the job and the wage itself is what satisfies you? BTW stalin achieved a lot of great industrial feats which we shouldnt forget, so its not as if all he did was kill people. Im not saying i condone what happened but we do need a purge of sorts here-on the people that caused the mess and some industrialization(which achieved full employment in the soviet union during the great depression). So ironically in the medium term stalinism would benefit Ireland. Im just saying, stalinism did have practical method as well as insane obssesion. If we just take the methodical aspects of stalinism and drop the insane ramblings of a lunatic, it makes perfect sense.

    Obviously I like Denmark very much(a very good female friend of mine, half irish is from there and its a place id like to study and work in in future as theres no real future here) but class compromise is not always possible. Could you honestly see the wealthy going along with that much equality and not putting it down before it gets that far advanced? Arguably the only way to get that equality in a society so unequal like Irelands where we know the rich wont compromise is to force them through communism like self governing communism or else democratic socialism with communist principles(ie no private property or taxing second homes at prohibitive rates). The JP mcmanuses and O'Briens and Oreillys of this world dont want an equal society through compromise like Denmark has obtained. You have to force them to accept it through socialism/communism.

    Again your last statement misses the point-in a socialist society welfare tends not to be exploited as people arent impoverished, and thus crime rates are very low. I repeat, without the intention of being overly blunt, capitalism+poverty=crime. socialism+communsim=equality Simples

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Again you are generalizing M. the whole reason for alcoholism, drug abuse and welfare abuse is poverty.
    No, not true in all cases, although it is, I agree, a huge contributory factor. Plenty of people from wealthy backgrounds have hit skid row....remember the parable of the prodigal son; twas always thus. In any case, regardless of the causes, paying people welfare without treating their addictions is bad policy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Capitalism, in any form be that in Iceland atm, Sweden to a small extent, or America at the most extreme, is the cause of poverty in the world. a 5% tax on the 4 trillion a day forex market, equally spreaded to all the 200 or so countries of the world would end global hunger and poverty.
    Yes, but communism is so authoritarian that I don't personally believe it to be worth the complete eradication of poverty, which is something it has never in practice managed to achieve. Mao's China and Soviet Russia had persistent problems feeding people. 30 million died in China during Mao's reign, from famine alone. And the commies also had their elites.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Poverty causes crime. Cuba has very low crime rates, as a socialist society tends to have. And no socialist societies are not all equal in poverty either-there's no evidence to support that. before you adapt the mansergh line on this argument. The whole point of communism is to end poverty, aka capitalism.
    I'm happy with socialist, I'm just not happy with communist. I would not, btw, describe Cuba as socialist. I don't know enough about Ecuador to comment. The Nordics do describe roughly what I would see as an ideal. Both they, and I would describe them as socialist. The element of coercion is lacking, as is the command economy. There is a basic capitalist market system. It's just heavily taxed, or resourced from fossil fuel revenues, or both.

    The mansergh argument?? Haven't heard this one, sorry. However, if he's saying coercive, human rights mangling Communist states tend to be poor, then perhaps I would agree, sorry. Unfortunately, capitalist states can also be poor, because of mismanagement and inequality.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Again your last statement misses the point-in a socialist society welfare tends not to be exploited as people arent impoverished, and thus crime rates are very low. I repeat, without the intention of being overly blunt, capitalism+poverty=crime. socialism+communsim=equality Simples
    I'd not agree on crime. Yes, street crime by the average punter is very low, but what about the crimes perpetrated by coercive governments??

    Heard of gulags, at all?? Or the wars perpetrated by the Soviet Union?? Define crime. Stalin cleansed 11 million of his better off peasantry, largely because they resisted communization. Lack of freedom of speech is a crime, I'm afraid.

    While poverty is a massive problem, and the root cause of much crime and wrongdoing, there will always be freeloaders and addicts in every society. There has to be a balance between duty of care to the less well off, and allowing people to feed roaring addictions, no questions asked. Communists did well on employment, largely because they could find jobs for most people, and punish them badly if they didn't work.

    Again, the coercion gets to me. I'm a libertarian leftie, not an authoritarian one.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    No, not true in all cases, although it is, I agree, a huge contributory factor. Plenty of people from wealthy backgrounds have hit skid row....remember the parable of the prodigal son; twas always thus. In any case, regardless of the causes, paying people welfare without treating their addictions is bad policy.

    You make a good point. But again there wouldnt be a need for rehab in a socialist society if there was no poverty. rehab should be free to all-it would then encourage more addicts to give up their addiction if they have the love and support of family/friends and the state.

    Yes, but communism is so authoritarian that I don't personally believe it to be worth the complete eradication of poverty, which is something it has never in practice managed to achieve. Mao's China and Soviet Russia had persistent problems feeding people. 30 million died in China during Mao's reign, from famine alone. And the commies also had their elites.

    You are mistaken in thinking that either of those societies was communist in practice. in theory stalinism had some great achievements as well as obvious flaws that caused thousands to die needlessly, even millions. I would happily take the good with the bad when it comes to stalinism. Im not after a police state by any means, though like i said before, we need to purge Irish society. FF should be banned forever. I dont care about their free speech. they ruined this country and should be outlawed. I would also argue for the reinstatement of the death penalty for traitors and ruinous tax exiles/cheats, without specifying their identities. So yes we need some stalinism, but not the insanity of killing people for no reason. Im a communist, not a maniac. The world has never seen a communist society-only socialist hitherto.

    I'm happy with socialist, I'm just not happy with communist. I would not, btw, describe Cuba as socialist. I don't know enough about Ecuador to comment. The Nordics do describe roughly what I would see as an ideal. Both they, and I would describe them as socialist. The element of coercion is lacking, as is the command economy. There is a basic capitalist market system. It's just heavily taxed, or resourced from fossil fuel revenues, or both.

    Im happy to hear you advocate socialism in some form. Einstein was a socialist btw, a fact thats often overlooked. Coercion is good as far as bankers, politicians and developers as well as elitists and propagandists are concerned. As far as ordinary people go, through regular referenda and self governance that comes with it, we could have a self governing communist society that would decide its own matters and if they didnt want the communist govt they should be able to have a referendum for an election at anytime saying so. The Nordics are not socialist, although ideally if Ireland was like Denmark the need for socialism would be considerably lessened. They are the sole contradiction to socialism, the Danes. They are the ultimate utopian social democratic society as far as capitalism is concerned. I must admit that country defies any communists beliefs. Marx never foretold the possibility of class compromise. Ive argued already that its not possible for ireland to obtain that as we're too unequal, hence the need for communism/socialism.

    The mansergh argument?? Haven't heard this one, sorry. However, if he's saying coercive, human rights mangling Communist states tend to be poor, then perhaps I would agree, sorry. Unfortunately, capitalist states can also be poor, because of mismanagement and inequality.
    Yes he thinks that all socialist societies, which like many capitalists he wrongly calls communist, are equal only in poverty when there is international evidence to prove otherwise. Socialist societies have eradicated equality by and large. Communism is merely the end stage of it.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    No, not true in all cases, although it is, I agree, a huge contributory factor. Plenty of people from wealthy backgrounds have hit skid row....remember the parable of the prodigal son; twas always thus. In any case, regardless of the causes, paying people welfare without treating their addictions is bad policy.

    Yes, but communism is so authoritarian that I don't personally believe it to be worth the complete eradication of poverty, which is something it has never in practice managed to achieve. Mao's China and Soviet Russia had persistent problems feeding people. 30 million died in China during Mao's reign, from famine alone. And the commies also had their elites.

    I'm happy with socialist, I'm just not happy with communist. I would not, btw, describe Cuba as socialist. I don't know enough about Ecuador to comment. The Nordics do describe roughly what I would see as an ideal. Both they, and I would describe them as socialist. The element of coercion is lacking, as is the command economy. There is a basic capitalist market system. It's just heavily taxed, or resourced from fossil fuel revenues, or both.

    Im happy to hear you advocate socialism in some form. Einstein was a socialist btw, a fact thats often overlooked. Coercion is good as far as bankers, politicians and developers as well as elitists and propagandists are concerned. As far as ordinary people go, through regular referenda and self governance that comes with it, we could have a self governing communist society that would decide its own matters and if they didnt want the communist govt they should be able to have a referendum for an election at anytime saying so. The Nordics are not socialist, although ideally if Ireland was like Denmark the need for socialism would be considerably lessened. They are the sole contradiction to socialism, the Danes. They are the ultimate utopian social democratic society as far as capitalism is concerned. I must admit that country defies any communists beliefs. Marx never foretold the possibility of class compromise. Ive argued already that its not possible for ireland to obtain that as we're too unequal, hence the need for communism/socialism.

    The mansergh argument?? Haven't heard this one, sorry. However, if he's saying coercive, human rights mangling Communist states tend to be poor, then perhaps I would agree, sorry. Unfortunately, capitalist states can also be poor, because of mismanagement and inequality.
    You make a good point. But again there wouldnt be a need for rehab in a socialist society if there was no poverty. rehab should be free to all-it would then encourage more addicts to give up their addiction if they have the love and support of family/friends and the state.

    You are mistaken in thinking that either of those societies was communist in practice. in theory stalinism had some great achievements as well as obvious flaws that caused thousands to die needlessly, even millions. I would happily take the good with the bad when it comes to stalinism. Im not after a police state by any means, though like i said before, we need to purge Irish society. FF should be banned forever. I dont care about their free speech. they ruined this country and should be outlawed. I would also argue for the reinstatement of the death penalty for traitors and ruinous tax exiles/cheats, without specifying their identities. So yes we need some stalinism, but not the insanity of killing people for no reason. Im a communist, not a maniac. The world has never seen a communist society-only socialist hitherto.

    Im happy to hear you advocate socialism in some form. Einstein was a socialist btw, a fact thats often overlooked. Coercion is good as far as bankers, politicians and developers as well as elitists and propagandists are concerned. As far as ordinary people go, through regular referenda and self governance that comes with it, we could have a self governing communist society that would decide its own matters and if they didnt want the communist govt they should be able to have a referendum for an election at anytime saying so. The Nordics are not socialist, although ideally if Ireland was like Denmark the need for socialism would be considerably lessened. They are the sole contradiction to socialism, the Danes. They are the ultimate utopian social democratic society as far as capitalism is concerned. I must admit that country defies any communists beliefs. Marx never foretold the possibility of class compromise. Ive argued already that its not possible for ireland to obtain that as we're too unequal, hence the need for communism/socialism.


    Yes mansergh thinks that all socialist societies, which like many capitalists he wrongly calls communist, are equal only in poverty when there is international evidence to prove otherwise. Socialist societies have eradicated INequality by and large. Communism is merely the end stage of it.
    Last edited by Apjp; 16-04-2011 at 10:23 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Apjp View Post
    Yes he thinks that all socialist societies, which like many capitalists he wrongly calls communist, are equal only in poverty when there is international evidence to prove otherwise. Socialist societies have eradicated equality by and large. Communism is merely the end stage of it.
    Yes, I realise that is the theory. Unfortunately, while I know the USSR, China etc were not truly communist (theoretically), they were called thus, and the mismanagement and coercion did not lead these countries to thrive. I'm presuming he's not referring to the Nordic countries as communist?

    I presume you mean to say that socialist societies have eradicated INEQUALITY?? My own feeling is that the Danes and Norwegians have taken it as far as it can go at the moment. Further movement in this regard would require global action on eradicating tax evasion and avoidance by the wealthy. Our doing that on our own would simply lead to capital flight. It would only work if everyone could agree on some common tax measures (income tax and your forex transaction tax would be far better targets than corpo tax, IMO).

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    Yes, I realise that is the theory. Unfortunately, while I know the USSR, China etc were not truly communist (theoretically), they were called thus, and the mismanagement and coercion did not lead these countries to thrive. I'm presuming he's not referring to the Nordic countries as communist?

    I presume you mean to say that socialist societies have eradicated INEQUALITY?? My own feeling is that the Danes and Norwegians have taken it as far as it can go at the moment. Further movement in this regard would require global action on eradicating tax evasion and avoidance by the wealthy. Our doing that on our own would simply lead to capital flight. It would only work if everyone could agree on some common tax measures (income tax and your forex transaction tax would be far better targets than corpo tax, IMO).
    I want taxes on all financial market transactions in derivatives, forex and so on. YES I MEAN INEQUALITY Ha! Manserghs a buffoon anyways. He's like the yank republican who sees obama as a marxist. He was just an example of the dangers of generalization. Again capital controls are very important-they saved iceland from complete desolation. Corporation tax is 18% in Iceland. I see no reason why a company would only set up here because of it. The environment in which a much downsized, but forever necessary private sector, should grow and thrive is one in which broadband, good road and rail networks, low consumption taxes, few tolls and lower local rates exist. Its foolish to be obsessed with 1 tax rate. Morgan Kelly even favors a 3 percent increase. Personally Latvia have a good rate at 16%. And we can afford the same rate as them, as without the bank *****, we'd be far more investable. Like many marxists im an optimist-i believe we will see a marxist govt within 10 years.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dun Laoghaire-Rathdown
    Posts
    8,498

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    I'd agree with him on the governments that most people refer to as communist, but the ideal is a good one.

    Corpo tax; we might have gotten away with raising it quietly during the boom, which would have been smart as it would have been counter-cyclical. However, doing it right now in response to EU bullying would be economic suicide as the American chamber of commerce here has turned it into an ideological battle, as have the EU. Give in to the EU and the yanks will be off to Singapore on principle.

    If you want to raise that tax, wait for the next boom, and get a broad international agreement to scrap tax havens. Good luck!

    My own view is that they should leave corpo tax where it is, as our poor infrastructure and small island status makes life more expensive for companies here (as you pointed out re the expense of Denmark re another issue).

    Harmonise income tax instead. The financial transaction taxes are, IMO, a great idea.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Meath
    Posts
    8,259

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Quote Originally Posted by morticia View Post
    I'd agree with him on the governments that most people refer to as communist, but the ideal is a good one.

    Corpo tax; we might have gotten away with raising it quietly during the boom, which would have been smart as it would have been counter-cyclical. However, doing it right now in response to EU bullying would be economic suicide as the American chamber of commerce here has turned it into an ideological battle, as have the EU. Give in to the EU and the yanks will be off to Singapore on principle.

    If you want to raise that tax, wait for the next boom, and get a broad international agreement to scrap tax havens. Good luck!

    My own view is that they should leave corpo tax where it is, as our poor infrastructure and small island status makes life more expensive for companies here (as you pointed out re the expense of Denmark re another issue).

    Harmonise income tax instead. The financial transaction taxes are, IMO, a great idea.
    Do you honestly believe every single multinational would leave if we raised the rate to 15% or so? The other side of things is, its ok to take from the blind but no one wants to touch the tax dodging Googles of this world. The yanks arent the only ones in town, and we should stop pandering to them. Many investors in Ireland are increasingly asian in origin and China still has 3.5 trillion of investment potential that we should be attracting here. But we shouldnt predicate our entire jobs growth policies on corpo tax. We need to invest in better rail networks for the haulage and logistics industries as well as toll abolition for all lorries and taxis. Vat should be cut by 5%. We should freeze local tax rates and introduce property and water charges for second homes and people earning over so much in lieu of them overtime. Companies should get discounted water, but they should be charged for water nonetheless. Only working people and the vulnerable in society should have free water.

    The point is we should also invest in graduates for equity in their companies. We should develop our excellent energy sectors. The ESB and Bord Gais make profits and the ******* in govt want to sell them. We should nationalize eircom and e mobile. we should make the hotel sector a semi state one as we own half the countries hotels anyways. Denmark has a 25% corpo tax rate. Dont tell me, please dont tell me, economies of scale such as ourselves and themselves should only have to rely on a scared cow by prostituting ourselves.

    RE harmonising income tax-thats only a good idea if we did it with other small countries. If we did that with Denmark, Iceland, Portugal, Greece and so on I'd be quite happy. It works the same way as the monetary union concept, the economies must be similar in relative size and output.Im glad ye agree on the financial transaction taxes. Labour used to as well before they were in govt. Max Keiser sees it as imperative.
    Last edited by Apjp; 16-04-2011 at 10:52 PM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    7,492

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    ooops somebody has just stuck a pin in the bubble:-

    Little by little, this notion that China is a rock of financial stability (at least compared to the US) is being chipped away.

    Reuters (via hedgefundinvest) is reporting that the central government in Beijing is about to shift 2-3 TRILLION yuan ($308-$463 billion) in local debt to the Federal books.

    Basically, local governments have borrowed like crazy, and there's been a fear of a massive wave of defaults, especially as revenue from real estate dries up.

    Also there's no local bond market, so these are debts owed to banks, meaning that this bailout of localities is also a bank bailout (surprise!).

    The expert on this issue is Northwestern poli-sci professor Victor Shih, who points out that China has been able to maintain the illusion of growth without government debt precisely through these local authorities.

    Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/china...#ixzz1NyukAiMz

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Wash DC
    Posts
    7,103

    Default Re: Chinese Bubble About To Burst ?

    Not to divert the intent of the thread, but with respect to China overtaking the US as the leading world economy, of course, that will happen, eventually. But maybe not as soon as some predict.

    In addition to the problems outlined in B.I. China has a demographic problem that is way more extreme than that faced by Europe, or the US, a rapidly aging population. This is a direct result of the “one child” policy in effect since 1979. It is estimated to have prevented 400M births.

    Chinese society is very multi-generational familial. Adult children, parents, grandparents co-habiting on a scale well beyond normal western circumstances, because the Chinese state does not provide a sufficient “safety net” for the elderly. Sometime between 2030 and 2040, a Chinese couple born in 1980, who produced a child between 2000 and 2010 will increasingly find, that one 35y.o. millennial baby is being asked to help support four 70-80 y.o. grandparents. The alternative is big tax increases. Either option stifles growth.

    By contrast, US often annually takes in more legal immigrants than all other countries in the world combined. And that’s only a little over 1M. The majority of US immigrants are in the 15-34 y.o. category. Mexico, India, China, and Philippines make up the majority of the supply and serve to keep the rate of growth in the ageing of the US population well below that of China.

Page 3 of 25 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us