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Thread: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

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    Default Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    His book also provides fresh detail on how the ANC's military wing had bomb-making lessons from the IRA, and intelligence training from the East German Stasi, which it used to carry out brutal interrogations of suspected "spies" at secret prison camps.
    I wonder will Mandela confess to where he buried Shergar.

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Mandela was in prison for a very long time whatever he knew must have been long gone by the time he got out.

    Its said that when you're young if you have heart you are communist, when you grow older if you have intelligence you are not,

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Interesting on the relationship between the CP and ANC.

    In the minutes, Mr Motshabi, is quoted as saying: "There was an accusation that we opposed allowing Nelson [Mandela] and Walter (Sisulu, a fellow activist) into the Family (a code word for the party) ... we were not informed because this was arising after the 1950 campaigns (a series of street protests). The recruitment of the two came after."
    While other SACP members have previously confirmed Mr Mandela's party membership, many of their testimonies were given under duress in police interviews, where they might have sought to implicate him. However, the minutes from the 1982 SACP meeting, said Prof Ellis, offered more reliable proof. "This is written in a closed party meeting so nobody is trying to impress or mislead the public," he said.
    ...
    Mr Mandela made his denial of Communist Party membership in the opening statement of his Rivonia trial, when he and nine other ANC leaders were tried for 221 alleged acts of sabotage designed to overthrow the apartheid system. The defendants were also accused of furthering the aims of Communism, a movement that was then illegal in South Africa.
    Addressing the court, Mr Mandela declared that he had "never been a member of the Communist Party," and that he disagreed with the movement's contempt for Western-style parliamentary democracy.
    ... Mr Mandela looked for help from the Communists, with whom he already had close contacts due to their shared opposition to apartheid. "He knew and trusted many Communist activists anyway, so it appears he was co-opted straight to the central committee with no probation required," said Prof Ellis. "But it's fair to say he wasn't a real convert, it was just an opportunist thing."
    ... On Friday night, a spokesman for the Nelson Mandela Foundation said: "We do not believe that there is proof that Madiba (Mandela's clan name) was a Party member ... The evidence that has been identified is comparatively weak in relation to the evidence against, not least Madiba's consistent denial of the fact over nearly 50 years. It is conceivable that Madiba might indulge in legalistic casuistry, but not that he would make an entirely false statement.
    "Recruitment and induction into the Party was a process that happened in stages over a period of time. It is possible that Madiba started but never completed the process. What is clear is that at a certain moment in the struggle he was sufficiently trusted as an ANC leader to participate in Party CC meetings. And it is probable that people in attendance at such meetings may have thought of him as a member."
    Mr Mandela, now 94, retired from public life in 2004 and is now in poor health. He did, though, allude to a symbiotic relationship with the Communists in his bestselling biography, The Long Walk to Freedom. "There will always be those who say that the Communists were using us," he wrote. "But who is to say that we were not using them?
    A necessary alliance, but some opportunism on both sides ?

    The hand over of partial power in South Africa left control of the economy in the same old hands as under apartheid.

    What was the Communist Party view of this ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Interesting on the relationship between the CP and ANC.

    A necessary alliance, but some opportunism on both sides ?

    The hand over of partial power in South Africa left control of the economy in the same old hands as under apartheid.

    What was the Communist Party view of this ?
    The SACP are a bunch of gangsters who continue to back the mining companies and the puppet NUM (under the leadership of the SACP) in attacking mine workers across South Africa. They have thrown in their lot with the ruling elites and are profiting handsomely from it.

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    This means that Mandela would have wanted a KGB or Stasi to replace the Bruderbond and also have a South African version of the Siberian gulags.

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant View Post
    The SACP are a bunch of gangsters who continue to back the mining companies and the puppet NUM (under the leadership of the SACP) in attacking mine workers across South Africa. They have thrown in their lot with the ruling elites and are profiting handsomely from it.

    Is this based on a "stageist" approach to social revolution ?

    Or if not, what ?

    What is the SP view of the Irish Trade Unions, in comparison with the South African ones ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Binn Beal View Post
    I wonder will Mandela confess to where he buried Shergar.
    The IRA/Umkhonto we Sizwe relationship has been brought out before. I think it was Kadar Asmal who wrote about it. He, as far as I can recall, initiated it by approaching Mick O'Riordan who went straight to Adams. Apart from providing bomb making instruction I believe the IRA scoped out targets in South Africa for Umkhonto we Sizwe.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    The IRA/Umkhonto we Sizwe relationship has been brought out before. I think it was Kadar Asmal who wrote about it. He, as far as I can recall, initiated it by approaching Mick O'Riordan who went straight to Adams. Apart from providing bomb making instruction I believe the IRA scoped out targets in South Africa for Umkhonto we Sizwe.
    All bourgeois nationalists together - why Mandela's grandson is named after Gaddafi.

    http://bananaza.wordpress.com/2011/1...tator-gaddafi/
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    All bourgeois nationalists together - why Mandela's grandson is named after Gaddafi.
    My understanding is that the struggle is South Africa was against a racist apartheid regime. I'm delighted the IRA was able to assist and would not disparage them as "bourgeois nationalists" or anything else for doing so.

    I'm not sure what the name of Mandela's grandson has to do with it.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by bernadette View Post
    Its said that when you're young if you have heart you are communist, when you grow older if you have intelligence you are not,
    Who said that, Bernadette? It seems to me that they have neither a heart nor intelligence.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    This means that Mandela would have wanted a KGB or Stasi to replace the Bruderbond and also have a South African version of the Siberian gulags.


    Obviously....
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    My understanding is that the struggle is South Africa was against a racist apartheid regime. I'm delighted the IRA was able to assist and would not disparage them as "bourgeois nationalists" or anything else for doing so.

    I'm not sure what the name of Mandela's grandson has to do with it.
    This is nothing to do with disparaging anything. I'm also delighted that the IRA, Gadaffi, and many others, helped to get rid of that regime.

    I think the struggle was against a colonial power and that race was only superficially what it was about.

    The limits of the struggle in South Africa were that, as in Ireland, it didn't go beyond the level of replacing an imperial/colonial power with a local bourgeoisie. The economy remained in the same hands.

    Mandela was a great nationalist leader, but I see no signs of him being a communist.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I think the struggle was against a colonial power and that race was only superficially what it was about.
    The struggle against apartheid was really a struggle against a colonial power? Really? So everyone involved in the anti-apartheid struggle the world over was hiding something? The Dunnes workers had a hidden agenda? Who was the colonial power, btw?
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

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    Default Re: Mandela was in fact a member of the Communist Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    The struggle against apartheid was really a struggle against a colonial power? Really? So everyone involved in the anti-apartheid struggle the world over was hiding something? The Dunnes workers had a hidden agenda? Who was the colonial power, btw?
    This I agree with:


    The South National Liberation Movement, the ANC and its allies, characterise the South African social formation as a system of `internal colonialism` or `colonialism of a special type`. What is special` or different about the colonial system as it obtains in South Africa is that there is no spatial separation between the colonising power(the white minority state) and the colonised black people. But in every respect, the features of classic colonialism are the hallmark of the relations that obtain between the black majority and white minority. The special features of South Africa`s internal colonialism are also compounded by the fact that the white South African state, parliament and government are juridically independent of any metropolitan country and have a sovereignty legally vested in them by various Acts of the British government and state.
    These juridical formalities should not be allowed to cloud the colonial content of the white supremacist state. The correctness of this position is clearly borne out by the historic evolution of the South African state.

    http://www.anc.org.za/show.php?id=4518
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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