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Thread: Savita Halappanavar investigations

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    There has been some fairly desperate and fairly typical attempts by the Galway Hospital, the State in the form of the Health Minister to try to keep this one quiet and only for Praveen who wasn't having any of it they probably would have succeeded in keeping it out of the news. One wonders how many times similar cases have not made the news.

    I've read some of the reported remarks according to Praveen that were made by the clinical staff at Galway UH and I note also that the terms of enquiry in the various investigations all carefully avoid the area of the responses from the Clinical team for an abortion.

    They'll leave room I suspect for it to come down to Praveen's word against the clinical team and the 'Good Garda family' system will come into play where no investigation into the alleged responses that 'this is a catholic country' will be made.

    It is a matter of concern if supposedly well educated people with medical qualifications are running religious dogma or seeing it as part of their medical duties.

    There is something seriously wrong in the head with people who are supposedly trained in triage coming up with the notion that religious dogma has any place in it.

    The peasant mentality is surprisingly resilient even where education and qualifications are allegedly present.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    There has been some fairly desperate and fairly typical attempts by the Galway Hospital, the State in the form of the Health Minister to try to keep this one quiet and only for Praveen who wasn't having any of it they probably would have succeeded in keeping it out of the news. One wonders how many times similar cases have not made the news.

    I've read some of the reported remarks according to Praveen that were made by the clinical staff at Galway UH and I note also that the terms of enquiry in the various investigations all carefully avoid the area of the responses from the Clinical team for an abortion.

    They'll leave room I suspect for it to come down to Praveen's word against the clinical team and the 'Good Garda family' system will come into play where no investigation into the alleged responses that 'this is a catholic country' will be made.

    It is a matter of concern if supposedly well educated people with medical qualifications are running religious dogma or seeing it as part of their medical duties.

    There is something seriously wrong in the head with people who are supposedly trained in triage coming up with the notion that religious dogma has any place in it.

    The peasant mentality is surprisingly resilient even where education and qualifications are allegedly present.
    All very right-on but the some of the facts are not in the public domain yet. Without them, everyone seems to be jumping the gun.

    Regards...jmcc

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    No-one at the Hospital has ever denied that the Halappanavars were told in response to their questions why an abortion couldn't be performed that 'this is a Catholic country'.

    I find that relevant. No denial of that as far as I can see.

    I'm aware also that the Ultras are reduced to making dark hints about 'known unknowns' in an effort to imply that Praveen Halappanavar is telling lies without actually saying so.

    And if you know what the 'facts' are how come you have them and no-one else does? Factually no one has actually denied those comments were made to the Halappanavars and I find that quite relevant.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    And if you know what the 'facts' are how come you have them and no-one else does? Factually no one has actually denied those comments were made to the Halappanavars and I find that quite relevant.
    I don't have any "unknown" facts on the case. What I am pointing out here is that people are jumping to their own conclusions in the absence of any more facts than are in the public domain.

    Regards...jmcc

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Well we have a witness who claims he and his wife were told 'this is a catholic country' when they requested a termination.

    That has not been denied by anyone involved I notice. I also know enough about Irish maternity hospitals to know that this sort of mumbo-jumbo is not at all unusual and usually because there is a convent in the background or an ethics board who like to employ people of the same mindset or at least who can be 'persuaded' what is good for their future career.

    I'm also not very happy with people on the one hand in this case like to call for 'all the facts to be known' when they know damn well that isn't the purpose of such investigations in Ireland and at the same time like to explore the option of gently walking up to the defamation line on Praveen Halappanavar, showing no such interest in what we know thus far and enjoying what they see as a 'balancing' sort of speculation of entirely another sort.

    It wouldn't surprise me to see some attempt at insinuating Praveen was somehow to blame for everything despite his wife being in Galway UH under observation for a week before she eventually died.

    Here's a quiz question- which of the three investigations has within its term of reference the the responses to the couple given by the Clinical Medical team at Galway UH?

    The answer to this is very relevant.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    Well we have a witness who claims he and his wife were told 'this is a catholic country' when they requested a termination.
    And did any journalist do the obvious journalistic thing and get the name of the person who made that statement? There seems to be a lot of people with their minds already made up who are not bothering with anything as mundane as facts.

    Regards...jmcc

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    There are plenty of people in Ireland happy to imply from a distance that they think Praveen Halappanavar is lying but have even less reason to make that assertion. The statements about what the couple were told by the Clinical team were released by Praveen (aka the witness to the conversation) and have been reported by him to the media at home in Ireland and to foreign media outlets.

    So far as far as I am aware no-one at Galway UH has offered to sue Praveen for defamation or impugning the reputation of the clinical team at Galway UH.

    Do you think Praveen is lying, jmcc? Or do you know anything about Irish maternity hospitals and their known history of pelvis crunching and letting nuns handle ethical policy at all?
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    There are plenty of people in Ireland happy to imply from a distance that they think Praveen Halappanavar is lying but have even less reason to make that assertion. The statements about what the couple were told by the Clinical team were released by Praveen (aka the witness to the conversation) and have been reported by him to the media at home in Ireland and to foreign media outlets.
    Basic journalism would have involved getting the names of those who allegedly made the statement and when and where they made it.

    So far as far as I am aware no-one at Galway UH has offered to sue Praveen for defamation or impugning the reputation of the clinical team at Galway UH.
    It may have escaped your notice but there are other legal proceedings that would take precedence. And they may not be able to comment due to those legal proceedings.

    Do you think Praveen is lying, jmcc?
    Nice try at muddying the waters.

    Other than the sad fact that his wife is dead, there is not enough information available to come to any conclusion one way or the other. However that won't stop people like yourself and the "Ultras" coming up with your own conclusions because what you feel happened is more important than what actually happened. In this respect, you and your "Ultras" are just mirror images of each other.

    Regards...jmcc

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    _Perhaps we could wait for t he inquest

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by homer View Post
    _Perhaps we could wait for t he inquest
    Exactly! There needs to be more information made available.

    Regards...jmcc

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcc View Post
    And did any journalist do the obvious journalistic thing and get the name of the person who made that statement? There seems to be a lot of people with their minds already made up who are not bothering with anything as mundane as facts.

    Regards...jmcc
    I'm waiting for the results of the various investigations.

    On that particular remark, it has been reported that Praveen Halappanvar said the remark was heard by a large group of people. It has also been reported that there are allegedly big gaps in the hospital notes.

    Hopefully, the inquiries will come good and will establish the facts. Apart from anything else, there may be lessons for best practice in managing late miscarriages that will benefit other women.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    I'm waiting for the results of the various investigations.

    On that particular remark, it has been reported that Praveen Halappanvar said the remark was heard by a large group of people. It has also been reported that there are allegedly big gaps in the hospital notes.

    Hopefully, the inquiries will come good and will establish the facts. Apart from anything else, there may be lessons for best practice in managing late miscarriages that will benefit other women.
    But in the absence of those investigations, all we have is supposition and speculation. The reportage on this seems to be following agendas rather than the facts (of which there are few).

    Regards...jmcc

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcc View Post
    But in the absence of those investigations, all we have is supposition and speculation. The reportage on this seems to be following agendas rather than the facts (of which there are few).

    Regards...jmcc
    There have been stories and counterstories.

    Personally, I will not come to any conclusion unless there is evidence to base them on.

    My view of abortion will not be affected by the outcome, either way.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Ah yeah ... hiding behind the Irish state's well known willingness to look up every tree in Dublin and never see any birds.

    The terms of reference for the three enquiries announced so far are carefully drawn AROUND any reason given for the clinical team's comments.

    That is what they are designed to do- when the Health Minister couldn't stuff the original inquiry with Galway UK 'friendly faces' the system then turned to ye ancient Hibernian method of inquiry based on incomplete notes, answering questions that aren't asked, and not answering questions to which most observers would like an answer.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Savita Halappanavar investigations

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    There has been some fairly desperate and fairly typical attempts by the Galway Hospital, the State in the form of the Health Minister to try to keep this one quiet....
    Absolutely true.

    The X Case was never meant to find it's way into the public domain. Even the parents of the child made pregnant by sexual violence were warned by the Gardai to keep their mouth shut when they were told that their child was barred from travelling to the UK for the removal of the rapist's fetus from her body. Source

    Any public dissemination of the details of the case would be a contempt of court. Indeed, the mere publicising of the fact of the attorney’s application would itself be a contempt. The matter was going to be disposed of in secret. The parents now found themselves being solemnly warned by gardaí that their daughter could not travel. And if they publicised the matter they would be in contempt.
    Give me a misty day, pearly gray, silver, silky faced, wide-awake crescent-shaped smile

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