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Thread: Shadey Síochána

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Just looking at Oireachtas Report there. Clare Daly named Devins. Walllace, Joan Colllins and Ming Flanagan also raised the whistleblower issue.
    If Daly has a list of names of people it is alleged had penalty points removed why would she choose to name just one?

    Would it be cynical to wonder if it's a politically motivated attempt to discredit a judge who deals with lawbreakers that Daly supports?

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    If Daly has a list of names of people it is alleged had penalty points removed why would she choose to name just one?

    Would it be cynical to wonder if it's a politically motivated attempt to discredit a judge who deals with lawbreakers that Daly supports?
    If the judge in question is guilty of this charge, does it change anything whether it's politically motivated that she is being exposed.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    If the judge in question is guilty of this charge, does it change anything whether it's politically motivated that she is being exposed.
    What charge is that?

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    What charge is that?
    Probably using the wrong word there - charge. I don't have access to the article in question.

    Am I right in saying that Judge Devins is on a list of people allegedly who had their penalty points suspiciously quashed?

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    If Daly has a list of names of people it is alleged had penalty points removed why would she choose to name just one?

    Would it be cynical to wonder if it's a politically motivated attempt to discredit a judge who deals with lawbreakers that Daly supports?
    Why focus on who released this information (Daly) rather than the potential wrongdoing?
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Probably using the wrong word there - charge. I don't have access to the article in question.

    Am I right in saying that Judge Devins is on a list of people allegedly who had their penalty points suspiciously quashed?
    She could well be but we have no way of knowing that or if it's true, whether the list comes from a credible source.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Why focus on who released this information (Daly) rather than the potential wrongdoing?
    If there is evidence of wrongdoing in relation to penalty points it should be notified to the appropriate authorities for investigation.

    Do you think it's acceptable for a TD to single out one person form a list of hundreds and name that person in the Dail in a way that implies that the individual is guilty of wrongdoing?

    Can you see how that could be interpreted as a settling of scores?

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    She could well be but we have no way of knowing that or if it's true, whether the list comes from a credible source.
    Well I would tend to believe the whistleblowers. It's the sort of thing that everyone knows goes on in Ireland - as in who you know means you can get away with stuff. It would be good to see some of it exposed. I hope the story is pursued.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Well I would tend to believe the whistleblowers. It's the sort of thing that everyone knows goes on in Ireland - as in who you know means you can get away with stuff. It would be good to see some of it exposed. I hope the story is pursued.
    You don't know who the whistle-blower is and you don't know what evidence, if any, (s)he can adduce in support of the allegations but you believe it anyway.

    I sense the corrosive influence of what is perhaps the most dangerous Christian ideal - Blessed is he who has not seen but yet believes.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    You don't know who the whistle-blower is and you don't know what evidence, if any, (s)he can adduce in support of the allegations but you believe it anyway.

    I sense the corrosive influence of what is perhaps the most dangerous Christian ideal - Blessed is he who has not seen but yet believes.
    No smoke without fire is another one.

    Oh of course I don't know for definite but I would tend to believe the whistleblower in this case, given the way that certain things have always been done for certain people in this country. Probably very hard to prove such a thing, given that it is allegedly well connected people who are allegedly on the list.

    Wouldn't you tend to believe the whistleblower on this. Like what's your hunch, this isn't a court of law here.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    No smoke without fire is another one.
    Equally corrosive.

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Oh of course I don't know for definite but I would tend to believe the whistleblower in this case, given the way that certain things have always been done for certain people in this country. Probably very hard to prove such a thing, given that it is allegedly well connected people who are allegedly on the list.
    How on earth can you form an opinion on the veracity of allegations when you don't know who is making them or for what reason they're making them or what evidence they have to support them?

    It seems to me that you want to believe the allegations because you dislike the person against whom they are being levelled.

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Wouldn't you tend to believe the whistleblower on this. Like what's your hunch, this isn't a court of law here.
    If a government TD alleged in the Dail that a garda had given her evidence that one of the Corrib protesters had broken the law and she named that person in the Dail, would you think it was an abuse of Dail privilege?

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    I think it is a safe bet in this case that Devins is really on the list.

    Also, I would not condemn the outing of anyone who sits in judgment on others.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    If there is evidence of wrongdoing in relation to penalty points it should be notified to the appropriate authorities for investigation.
    Would that be the Gardai?
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Would that be the Gardai?
    In this case I imagine it would be the Garda Ombudsman.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    A bit late at this stage to cast doubt on the authenticity of the documents. At least three national newspapers have been in possession of them for several days and haven't expressed any reservations about their provenance.

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