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Thread: Shadey Síochána

  1. #151
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    Thorough coverage there on Oireachtas Report. Daly in possession of a memo sent to all members of the force last week warning members not to release any information on pain of prosecution.
    She claims that one garda was responsible for writing off a thousand penalty points notices and that three thousand were written off in the space of a single bank holiday weekend.
    Under what legislation, I wonder ?
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  2. #152
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Is there precedent for that ? Normal thing ?
    According to Dooney and O'Toole, where a reply to a PQ is long and detailed or would require tabular information, the agreement of the Ceann Comhairle can be obtained to having it entered into the formal record without it having first been read in the house. The deputy who asked the question is given a copy of the reply first.

    Perhaps that's what's happening here and we're looking at a preliminary issue of the record rather than the definitive version.

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Under what legislation, I wonder ?
    The Garda Siochana Act 2005 perhaps?

  4. #154
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    According to Shatter there are only 197 unique allegations on the list.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...327774659.html

    The Ceann Comhairle is to refer the TDs who abused Dail privilege to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

    Parliamentary privilege is very important in a democracy because it allows parliamentarians to debate the people's business without fear of being sued but perhaps we should look at how to deal with flagrant abuses like those in this matter.

    A constitutional amendment to allow a qualified majority of the Dail and/or Seanad - say 75% - to withdraw privilege where it was abused would balance the needs of parliament with the right of citizens to their good name.

  5. #155
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    According to Shatter there are only 197 unique allegations on the list.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...327774659.html

    The Ceann Comhairle is to refer the TDs who abused Dail privilege to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

    Parliamentary privilege is very important in a democracy because it allows parliamentarians to debate the people's business without fear of being sued but perhaps we should look at how to deal with flagrant abuses like those in this matter.

    A constitutional amendment to allow a qualified majority of the Dail and/or Seanad - say 75% - to withdraw privilege where it was abused would balance the needs of parliament with the right of citizens to their good name.

    Apparently, they were "sample cases." The list is said to be much longer, by people who have seen it. Shatter has been sitting on the complaint since January.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  6. #156
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Apparently, they were "sample cases." The list is said to be much longer, by people who have seen it. Shatter has been sitting on the complaint since January.
    Oh Jaziz, not more sample charges. Please tell me there's no Garlic involved.

  7. #157
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    Oh Jaziz, not more sample charges. Please tell me there's no Garlic involved.
    If there was Garlic, they would all be in jail.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  8. #158
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    If there was Garlic, they would all be in jail.
    Clover Hill?


  9. #159
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    According to Shatter there are only 197 unique allegations on the list.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...327774659.html

    The Ceann Comhairle is to refer the TDs who abused Dail privilege to the Committee on Procedure and Privileges.

    Parliamentary privilege is very important in a democracy because it allows parliamentarians to debate the people's business without fear of being sued but perhaps we should look at how to deal with flagrant abuses like those in this matter.

    A constitutional amendment to allow a qualified majority of the Dail and/or Seanad - say 75% - to withdraw privilege where it was abused would balance the needs of parliament with the right of citizens to their good name.
    It's not at all clear what the reference to 197 unique allegations refers to. The list comprises 50 thousand cases where penalty points were written off.
    Is Shatter trying to tell us that these have all been investigated and that all except 197 cases have been found to be above board?

  10. #160
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    Would you like that list that you feature on as a wife beater to be published so you can be named and shamed?
    Yeah, yeah, you always have some smartass answer don't ya. You've even said on this thread youself that this matter should be investigated properly, ie: not the Gardai investigating Gardai. It looks like that is exactly what the Minister for Justice will set up.

    Tell me this, why should anyone pay their speeding fines, when it is clear that certain people are allowed to get off paying it simply because they are well connected or whatever. It is not acceptable that this matter should be whitewashed and buried.

  11. #161
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by PaddyJoe View Post
    It's not at all clear what the reference to 197 unique allegations refers to. The list comprises 50 thousand cases where penalty points were written off.
    Is Shatter trying to tell us that these have all been investigated and that all except 197 cases have been found to be above board?
    Impossible to say with certainty but that appears to be the nub of it. What criteria are being used in Shatter's office to determine what's questionable is another matter. It might be as simple as just picking the well known persons from the list.

    The alleged figure of 50k over 3.5 years doesn't seem too outlandish when one considers things like emergency service vehicles and medical personnel attending incidents, foreign reg cars, diplomatic corps, stolen vehicles, technical issues like faulty or improperly sited detection apparatus (the roll out of the new speed vans was within the period so teething issues could have arisen), notices issued to owners who weren't driving at the time of the offence and doubtless many other perfectly legitimate reasons.

    That's not to say that substantial allegations shouldn't be investigated but we shouldn't jump to wild conclusions about these things.

  12. #162
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Yeah, yeah, you always have some smartass answer don't ya.
    It wasn't a smart-arse answer at all but an attempt to bring home to you the dangers of baying for blood on foot of unproven allegations.

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    You've even said on this thread youself that this matter should be investigated properly, ie: not the Gardai investigating Gardai. It looks like that is exactly what the Minister for Justice will set up.

    Tell me this, why should anyone pay their speeding fines, when it is clear that certain people are allowed to get off paying it simply because they are well connected or whatever. It is not acceptable that this matter should be whitewashed and buried.
    Neither is it acceptable to accept without question that everyone who's had a penalty notice stopped and the gardaí who stopped them is guilty of wrongdoing.

  13. #163
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    It wasn't a smart-arse answer at all but an attempt to bring home to you the dangers of baying for blood on foot of unproven allegations.
    Yeah I know the point you were making. Names on the list are being made public regardless and seeing as the powers that be appear to be happy to whitewash the issue, I think it's fair game.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    Neither is it acceptable to accept without question that everyone who's had a penalty notice stopped and the gardaí who stopped them is guilty of wrongdoing.
    That's not what this is about and well you know it. This is about certain people getting away with having to pay speeding fines simply because they are well connected. It's an example of the wink, wink, nudge, nudge culture that needs to be eradicated.

  14. #164
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    It wasn't a smart-arse answer at all but an attempt to bring home to you the dangers of baying for blood on foot of unproven allegations.


    Neither is it acceptable to accept without question that everyone who's had a penalty notice stopped and the gardaí who stopped them is guilty of wrongdoing.
    It's the Gardaí who are guilty of wrongdoing, if they let people off.

    People can appeal the points, but only by going to Court.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

  15. #165
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    Default Re: Shadey Síochána

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    Yeah I know the point you were making. Names on the list are being made public regardless and seeing as the powers that be appear to be happy to whitewash the issue, I think it's fair game.
    It's not fair game to attack someone's good name just to get in a dig at the government. Would you be happy if some TD found it expedient to destroy your character for the sake of a headline?

    Quote Originally Posted by goatstoe View Post
    That's not what this is about and well you know it. This is about certain people getting away with having to pay speeding fines simply because they are well connected. It's an example of the wink, wink, nudge, nudge culture that needs to be eradicated.
    What you're saying is that there's no need for any investigation. Just name everyone on this list and have it assumed that they're guilty of wrongdoing. That's no better than the sort of abuse you claim to oppose.

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