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Thread: The Catalan Independence Process

  1. #16
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Quote Originally Posted by Ephilant View Post
    sounds familiar also. One of the first things Syriza wanted to do was nationalize the Helios project (not the military communications system, the solar panel system) and have it up and running by 2015. Make Greece energy independent. It was the first thing that was privatized, now in control of a German lead consortium. All grant-aid for solar panels withdrawn and prices up with 25-30%. Same crew who just pulled the plug on "deserttec", the North African solar energy system, leaving Egypt high and dry for millions of investment and 1000s of jobs.
    Wish you all the independence you deserve, starting tomorrow!
    I hope for independence too, but for my country from both the troika and the brits Im just an interested observer in Catalonia.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogiol View Post
    I hope for independence too, but for my country from both the troika and the brits Im just an interested observer in Catalonia.
    Some things never change. In the days of Uncle Joseph, a Troika was a kangaroo court of 3 government puppets who decided whether to hang you or shoot you. No changes there so, just different methods.
    Still, same wish goes. Troika and brits, in that order

  3. #18
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/inte...ry-interactive


    Great short guide to Catalonian history from the Guardian.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  4. #19
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogiol View Post
    Firstly fluff. Any honest comentator will admit that the surge in support for independence in Catalonia can be traced very simply back to the spanish high court resolution of 2010, when they brough down the new catalan statute of autonomy, as well as continued attacks on the catalan languages status.

    Before then there were only about 25% of the electorate firmly in favour, but since then it has risen dramatically to over 50%. Another piece of background is the fact that that new statute of autonomy had been passed by the Spanish parliament as well as by referendum in Catalonia. Unsurprisingly, that court has a PP majority.

    (the judicial system in post dictatorship Spain is high politicised and judges are appointed by the two main parites).

    Also, money of course has a lot to do with it but that issue in itself is a result of a more deeper, psycological divorce between the catalans and the spanish (castillians).

    PaddyJoe, that dirty play by El Mundo seems to have done more harm to the unionist cause than to Mas. The ridiculousness of it is just shocking. The anonimous report didnt even mention Mas, and is clearly a quick fabrication done under pressure.

    I dont like Mas one bit, and Im sure he's corrupt to the hilt but no dirt has been found as of yet.

    All in all, it looks like pro-referendum parties will increase their share of seats but Mas and CiU will not reach their coveted overall majority (phew). And look out for the irruption of the CUP, who seem to me to be a real direct-democracy alternative. (Something you might like fluff!)

    Thanks for the background info on that Its oppression by the Spanish state invariably contributing to this. There is no denying however that the financial autonomy they will have is a huge driving force as economics is dictating the situation perhaps not to levels I was thinking of before hand.

    Got some background on the constitution from here

    http://www.lavanguardia.com/politica...poder-jud.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statute...y_of_Catalonia

    After four years of deliberations, the Constitutional Court of Spain assessed the constitutionality of the challenged articles and its binding assessment was released on June 28 of 2010. By a 6 to 4 majority, the Court's justices rewrote 14 articles and dictated the interpretation for 27 more, mainly relating to language, justice and fiscal policy. The judgment reassured that the term "nation" used in the preamble has no legal standing. It left without effect any of the legal clauses that could have guaranteed a true measure of self-government for Catalonia. It also abolished all the mechanisms that had been put in place to minimize the distortionary effects of the existing Spanish tax and transfer system
    One interpretation of the definition "nation" changes and invalidates a whole document. Insane one judge appointed by the establishment could make such a decision...
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  5. #20
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    We can expect that any mention of this in Ireland will result in the 'dangers' of an independent small nation state not staying part of an unequal, unfair and very undemocratic federal union.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Can I ask those who advocate Catalonia staying with the Spanish Kingdom, why would an independent not be any better off representing itself in the EU, rather than Spain doing so? I mean, we hear all this ***** about small states like Scotland, Catalonia, etc not being viable, and yet fail to see highly successful countries like the Baltic nations flourishing.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Victory?
    zerohedge ‏@zerohedge

    CATALAN PRO-INDEPENDENCE PARTIES WIN MAJORITY, EXIT POLL SHOWS
    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  8. #23
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    First exit polls just in, courtesy of TV3 (no, not the irish one )And its shocking!!!

    CiU who were going for an overall majority of 69 look to have fallen back, against all other predictions to between 53-57

    ERC up to 20-23 and becoming the 2nd party.

    16-18 for both PSC and PP

    ICV-EA 10-12

    Ciutadans 6-7 and, amazingly the CUP 5-6!

    The look of shock and dissappointment on the face of the CiU supporters was priceless :P

  9. #24
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Victory?
    They already had a strong majority. To me its a victory for the left, with each left wing party increasing their seats!! (PSC arent left, imho)

  10. #25
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    As long as the unionists fall I'll be happy.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Even worse than expected for CiU which has lost 12 seats and seems to be stuck on 50 seats with 92% of the votes counted.
    ERC up to 21 seats and has pushed the PSC into third place.
    The PP vote remains more or less unchanged.
    Certainly a big swing to the left.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Very unhappy looking bunch at the CiU press conference right now
    http://www.rtve.es/noticias/mas-24/

  13. #28
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    Mas isn't going to resign. Says that CiU will be seeking help from other political groups to govern.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    The right wing Ciutadans party has seen a big rise in support. Up to 9 seats from 3.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: The Catalan Independence Process

    so with over 97% counted really shocking results in the catalan election.

    CiU 50 (-12)
    ERC 21 (+11)
    PSC 20 (-8)
    PP 19 (+1)
    ICV-EU 13 (+3)
    CIUTADANS 9 (+6)
    CUP 3 (+3)

    All that means 2 things. There has been a big swing to the left, from CiU to ERC and ICV and pro independence parties remain very strong and have infact increased their seats by one.
    87 pro vote vs. 48 against.

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