Pre-Budget National Anti-Austerity Protest. Dublin Nov 24th #24N

[fluffybiscuits]

I'm not a fifth columnist like you fluffy. Anarchy is good, pacifism-especially in a Greek style situation where you will get battered for protesting- is stupid.

Its a hybrid of the two, anarchy seeks to disrupt and the pacifism ensures its not to the detriments of human lives. Ghandi was quite successful at it

[Baron von Biffo]

Over 100,000 attended in 2010 and nothing changed, although it could be said that the march helped the greens finally pulling the plug.

FF wrote the policy that FG and Lab are implementing. Looking at the poll figures in GGs thread and applying to the march means that 66,000 of the 100,000 attending would vote for more of the same. Another 17,000 would vote SF who it must be believed would pursue broadly similar policies.

The politicians know these numbers. They also know that 'anti austerity' is just a mushy notion. There's nothing that the government can look at and say 'If we do this we'll win the support of the marchers'.

Unfocussed people with no solid, thought out idea of what they want have no chance of being taken seriously.

[20 yards of linen=1 coat]

Lol some of the people on this forum are hilarious. You whine and moan all day long about the state of the country and about how "the Irish arent like X country where they stand up and, and, and, DO things", and then you cant be arsed even to go to this?

My reasons for attending are as follows:

1) If enough people go who aren't from the unions, and are obviously of the anti-household tax crew, then what will happen is people begin to see it primarily as a show of strength from the household tax campaign. this works both by letting the government know we are still around, and willing and able to mobilise if it's necessary (court cases), and to show flagging non-payers that we are still around as well.

(id point out that the anti-HHT campaign is the primary, if not only, site of organised dissent in the country atm, and its failure would be extremely discouraging for anyone with any ambitions of not having whatever wealth is left in the country expropriated)

2) if enough people go to it, say 50-100,000, that demonstrates to everyone involved, even if just watching, that people actually are pissed off about the present and coming misery rather than passively taking it, and might give them confidence to come out themselves soon, or further down the line. This would be the symbolic part of the whole thing. Doesnt do anything in itself, but without this as a first step, then nothing can follow as far as I can see.

3) The government is comprised of the shiny happy faces employed by the technocrats actually in power in Europe. those faces are simply implementing what the markets and the troika demand for the sake of the European/global economy. of course there is no hope of changing government policy (on this matter) by being angry in public. youd want to be hopelessly naive to think that was the case, all you have to do is look at Greece. the only way to prevent them from serving those demands (which run counter to the needs of actual people in Europe), it seems to me, will come from the streets, and what that actually means is from some extra-parliamentary network of people, communities and organisations willing to mobilise and take back bits of the terrain/economy piece by piece. A few streets in Dublin for a few hours isnt much of a start but its something...

4) There's always the possibility something will happen that would change the political environment completely, look at Milbank over in England. The student movement was dead over there before that happened, the first wave of cuts and privatisations had already gone through, despite the occupations in the universities, and everyone was feeling burnt out and pretty disillusioned. Then that came out of nowhere and the whole thing got charged beyond recognition. Not suggesting that Milbank is likely to repeat itself at all, or that if it did it would have the same effect, but the point is unless you have, as a bare minimum, large groups of people out in public together then you leave no chance of anything more emerging from it.

5) I feel personally committed to the anti-household tax campaign and want to see what happens on the day. Also want to see what the rest of the country's non-payers look like . Ive only ever been to a couple of small demonstrations in Ireland. It has to be better than sitting at home on the internet anyway, right?

[Apjp]

Its a hybrid of the two, anarchy seeks to disrupt and the pacifism ensures its not to the detriments of human lives. Ghandi was quite successful at it

Yeah a smiley face makes the crazy sound sane. Tell you what, go down to this protest and follow yer mates in the swp til they start giving the guards abuse, or until the gards start abusing them. Stick your face under the baton for the cause. Let me know how it goes. la..la..la..

[C. Flower]

Lol some of the people on this forum are hilarious. You whine and moan all day long about the state of the country and about how "the Irish arent like X country where they stand up and, and, and, DO things", and then you cant be arsed even to go to this?

My reasons for attending are as follows:

1) If enough people go who aren't from the unions, and are obviously of the anti-household tax crew, then what will happen is people begin to see it primarily as a show of strength from the household tax campaign. this works both by letting the government know we are still around, and willing and able to mobilise if it's necessary (court cases), and to show flagging non-payers that we are still around as well.

(id point out that the anti-HHT campaign is the primary, if not only, site of organised dissent in the country atm, and its failure would be extremely discouraging for anyone with any ambitions of not having whatever wealth is left in the country expropriated)

2) if enough people go to it, say 50-100,000, that demonstrates to everyone involved, even if just watching, that people actually are pissed off about the present and coming misery rather than passively taking it, and might give them confidence to come out themselves soon, or further down the line. This would be the symbolic part of the whole thing. Doesnt do anything in itself, but without this as a first step, then nothing can follow as far as I can see.

3) The government is comprised of the shiny happy faces employed by the technocrats actually in power in Europe. those faces are simply implementing what the markets and the troika demand for the sake of the European/global economy. of course there is no hope of changing government policy (on this matter) by being angry in public. youd want to be hopelessly naive to think that was the case, all you have to do is look at Greece. the only way to prevent them from serving those demands (which run counter to the needs of actual people in Europe), it seems to me, will come from the streets, and what that actually means is from some extra-parliamentary network of people, communities and organisations willing to mobilise and take back bits of the terrain/economy piece by piece. A few streets in Dublin for a few hours isnt much of a start but its something...

4) There's always the possibility something will happen that would change the political environment completely, look at Milbank over in England. The student movement was dead over there before that happened, the first wave of cuts and privatisations had already gone through, despite the occupations in the universities, and everyone was feeling burnt out and pretty disillusioned. Then that came out of nowhere and the whole thing got charged beyond recognition. Not suggesting that Milbank is likely to repeat itself at all, or that if it did it would have the same effect, but the point is unless you have, as a bare minimum, large groups of people out in public together then you leave no chance of anything more emerging from it.

5) I feel personally committed to the anti-household tax campaign and want to see what happens on the day. Also want to see what the rest of the country's non-payers look like . Ive only ever been to a couple of small demonstrations in Ireland. It has to be better than sitting at home on the internet anyway, right?

Yes

[fluffybiscuits]

Yeah a smiley face makes the crazy sound sane. Tell you what, go down to this protest and follow yer mates in the swp til they start giving the guards abuse, or until the gards start abusing them. Stick your face under the baton for the cause. Let me know how it goes. la..la..la..

War wounds you mean

[fluffybiscuits]

Lol some of the people on this forum are hilarious. You whine and moan all day long about the state of the country and about how "the Irish arent like X country where they stand up and, and, and, DO things", and then you cant be arsed even to go to this?

My reasons for attending are as follows:

1) If enough people go who aren't from the unions, and are obviously of the anti-household tax crew, then what will happen is people begin to see it primarily as a show of strength from the household tax campaign. this works both by letting the government know we are still around, and willing and able to mobilise if it's necessary (court cases), and to show flagging non-payers that we are still around as well.

(id point out that the anti-HHT campaign is the primary, if not only, site of organised dissent in the country atm, and its failure would be extremely discouraging for anyone with any ambitions of not having whatever wealth is left in the country expropriated)

2) if enough people go to it, say 50-100,000, that demonstrates to everyone involved, even if just watching, that people actually are pissed off about the present and coming misery rather than passively taking it, and might give them confidence to come out themselves soon, or further down the line. This would be the symbolic part of the whole thing. Doesnt do anything in itself, but without this as a first step, then nothing can follow as far as I can see.

3) The government is comprised of the shiny happy faces employed by the technocrats actually in power in Europe. those faces are simply implementing what the markets and the troika demand for the sake of the European/global economy. of course there is no hope of changing government policy (on this matter) by being angry in public. youd want to be hopelessly naive to think that was the case, all you have to do is look at Greece. the only way to prevent them from serving those demands (which run counter to the needs of actual people in Europe), it seems to me, will come from the streets, and what that actually means is from some extra-parliamentary network of people, communities and organisations willing to mobilise and take back bits of the terrain/economy piece by piece. A few streets in Dublin for a few hours isnt much of a start but its something...

4) There's always the possibility something will happen that would change the political environment completely, look at Milbank over in England. The student movement was dead over there before that happened, the first wave of cuts and privatisations had already gone through, despite the occupations in the universities, and everyone was feeling burnt out and pretty disillusioned. Then that came out of nowhere and the whole thing got charged beyond recognition. Not suggesting that Milbank is likely to repeat itself at all, or that if it did it would have the same effect, but the point is unless you have, as a bare minimum, large groups of people out in public together then you leave no chance of anything more emerging from it.

5) I feel personally committed to the anti-household tax campaign and want to see what happens on the day. Also want to see what the rest of the country's non-payers look like . Ive only ever been to a couple of small demonstrations in Ireland. It has to be better than sitting at home on the internet anyway, right?

+1

A point very well made. We are all doing our best to try and tackle the indifference here and the unjust taxes being levied against us. I get to what rallies I can and while it may not be a lot of people its the best I can do as we all want to make a difference at the end of the day. You are right the more people there is the more the government will sit up and take notice of the issues raised. Remember the disability cuts and they were left red faced and embarassed into doing a U Turn on the issue.

[ang]

Unions asking people to take to the streets on the 24th.Govt current austerity policies are not working says SIPTU's Jack O'Connor -

They claim the Government has focused too much on cutting the living standards of the low paid, while failing to tackle the problem of low-growth in the economy.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/u...k1UK0s.twitter

[C. Flower]

[ang]

Thousands take part in Waterford protest -

Gardaí estimate 12,000 people have taken to the streets in a demonstration in Waterford city this afternoon, protesting about health cuts and other issues

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1110/waterford-protest.html

[C. Flower]

Thousands take part in Waterford protest -



http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1110/waterford-protest.html

At Roberts Square, they met with another initiative, Waterford Gives a Shirt. The group collected over 20,000 shirts from Waterford people in recent weeks, to symbolise giving the Government the shirts from people’s backs.

[ang]

Love it Cass !!!!!


Fear Subsiding Anger Rising - Are the Irish finally shouting STOP

[Binn Beal]

I was on the march that burnt the British Embassy. It wasn't advertised as a march to burn the British Embassy.

I wasn't on the march that stormed the Bastile or the Winter Palace either; I didn't go along because I knew it would be nothing but the same old speeches all over again.

[C. Flower]

Population of Waterford is about 50,000. RTE says that 15,000 people were on the march which was organised starting two days ago, by some women with a face book page.

[Fraxinus]

I know it's the only march in town but when you have the likes of Begg and O'Connor leading the parade it kinda makes a mockery of it. The Unions are poisoned. I went in 2010 and I felt even more disempowered at the end when those boys were making speeches about cuts and hardship and I knew full well they'd be heading back to well feathered nests when all was over with no intention of organising any further protest action.
How have the Union leadership not been overthrown by the members as yet 4 years on from when everything went belly up? Are Union structures as democratically impotent as Government?