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Thread: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

  1. #31
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    No to the death penalty and no to three strikes and you're out - three cases of child abuse/rape should be sufficent to keep an offender inside for ever anyway. If there was any sense in it then two should be sufficient...
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    The 'no to the death penalty' issue tends to change depending on whether you know or are related to the victim, I'm reliably informed.

    It is all very well being principled about the death penalty for these animals but then people who aren't affected can generally afford to be principled, can't they?
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    The 'no to the death penalty' issue tends to change depending on whether you know or are related to the victim, I'm reliably informed.

    It is all very well being principled about the death penalty for these animals but then people who aren't affected can generally afford to be principled, can't they?
    That's why victims don't get a say in sentencing - vengeance is not a legitimate means of conducting judicial policy

    And no Irishman should ever support the death penalty for anyone - we have enough evidence as to why it is a terrible idea from the false convictions of Irishmen who would have been hanged had it been in place. And anyway, no one has the right to take a man's life except in self- or mutual-defence...
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    That's why victims don't get a say in sentencing - vengeance is not a legitimate means of conducting judicial policy

    And no Irishman should ever support the death penalty for anyone - we have enough evidence as to why it is a terrible idea from the false convictions of Irishmen who would have been hanged had it been in place. And anyway, no one has the right to take a man's life except in self- or mutual-defence...
    It wasn't such a great idea was it, introducing the 'state' as the injured party (the DPP against Mr Molester).

    After all the state can afford to be sanguine about these matters- unless of course the victim is from the traditional 'good Garda family' in which case strong words would be issued to make the judge feel better from the bench at sentencing.

    I'm aware of your notions of the sanctity of life and reject them- no matter how you try to hide them behind 'what ifs'.

    In our original culture such an attacker would almost certainly be got rid of. So the only person who need worry about wrongful conviction is the executioner.

    And the blind-eye being turned to the 'millwheel around the neck' solution put forward by the putative messiah himself in the moral-book is one of the lesser known instructions to the faithful it seems.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    As for 'vengeance' it was a fine legal principle in our native legal system. Only it was called 'restitution' then.

    Used to work quite well. To the point where everyone knew the law and the penalties and they didn't even need to be consulted in a book.
    Think National. Act Local. Oh- and superstition is just the dark matter of human history.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    It wasn't such a great idea was it, introducing the 'state' as the injured party (the DPP against Mr Molester).

    After all the state can afford to be sanguine about these matters- unless of course the victim is from the traditional 'good Garda family' in which case strong words would be issued to make the judge feel better from the bench at sentencing.

    I'm aware of your notions of the sanctity of life and reject them- no matter how you try to hide them behind 'what ifs'.

    In our original culture such an attacker would almost certainly be got rid of. So the only person who need worry about wrongful conviction is the executioner.

    And the blind-eye being turned to the 'millwheel around the neck' solution put forward by the putative messiah himself in the moral-book is one of the lesser known instructions to the faithful it seems.
    Leaving aside the right-wing hang em and flog em stuff, you completely misread the Bible (Christ said 'it would be better for them to have a millstone hung round their neck' than to end up in hell. He also, very specifically in the context of the death penalty, said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'.)..
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    As for 'vengeance' it was a fine legal principle in our native legal system. Only it was called 'restitution' then.

    Used to work quite well. To the point where everyone knew the law and the penalties and they didn't even need to be consulted in a book.
    Restitution is not vengeance.
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    Restitution is not vengeance.
    The main and most important responsibility adults have is to ensure the health and welfare of our young. Paedophiles can't be cured they are an ever present danger to children. If having been caught twice they are again caught abusing a child when they know the consequences then I think the death penalty is a just response.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by bernadette View Post
    The main and most important responsibility adults have is to ensure the health and welfare of our young. Paedophiles can't be cured they are an ever present danger to children. If having been caught twice they are again caught abusing a child when they know the consequences then I think the death penalty is a just response.
    You don't have the moral right to take another man's life unless in immediate self- or mutual-defence. Killing is never just. Not that any of this is an issue because the death penalty will never be back again in Europe in our lifetimes.
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    You don't have the moral right to take another man's life unless in immediate self- or mutual-defence. Killing is never just. Not that any of this is an issue because the death penalty will never be back again in Europe in our lifetimes.
    You're wrong I do and You're right we won't get it back.

    Its all very well grabbing the moral high ground and hanging on to it like a limpet, there is a greater morality and that is to defend the children. None of the do gooding luvvies who rail against the death penalty have an alternative to the death sentence. Life imprisonment is the only option but life rarely means life even for child molesters and when it does there is a hue and cry to get the perverts released as in the case of Myra Hindley, a creature I would have hung myself, after i'd kicked her around a room a few times.

    I owe such creatures nothing I owe my child the life I promised.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by bernadette View Post
    You're wrong I do and You're right we won't get it back.

    Its all very well grabbing the moral high ground and hanging on to it like a limpet, there is a greater morality and that is to defend the children. None of the do gooding luvvies who rail against the death penalty have an alternative to the death sentence. Life imprisonment is the only option but life rarely means life even for child molesters and when it does there is a hue and cry to get the perverts released as in the case of Myra Hindley, a creature I would have hung myself, after i'd kicked her around a room a few times.

    I owe such creatures nothing I owe my child the life I promised.
    So, people who oppose the death penalty are 'do-gooding luvvies'....

    No, you really don't have any such moral right, as much as you might convince yourself you do. It's called murder.

    And do you not see the irony of telling me I'm 'grabbing the high moral ground' when you're, er, doing the same thing?.....
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    So, people who oppose the death penalty are 'do-gooding luvvies'....

    No, you really don't have any such moral right, as much as you might convince yourself you do. It's called murder.

    And do you not see the irony of telling me I'm 'grabbing the high moral ground' when you're, er, doing the same thing?.....

    There is no irony, its the responsibility of adults, particularly parents, to ensure their childs safety there is nothing immoral in making sure someone who would hurt or murder them is denied that opportunity and pays for his perversion with his life.

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by bernadette View Post
    There is no irony, its the responsibility of adults, particularly parents, to ensure their childs safety there is nothing immoral in making sure someone who would hurt or murder them is denied that opportunity and pays for his perversion with his life.
    If they're actually trying to hurt or murder them and you kill them in defence, that's clearly permitted in my view laid out earlier - so long as killing is the last resort. Killing because you lost the rag with them is a defence under provocation (in England anway).

    But that's not what we are talking about here, we're talking about when they're already in custody or else not an immediate danger to anyone - then you have zero right to kill, in morality or in law - in the latter you would be convicted of murder. The state has no moral right whatsoever to kill a person already put out of harm's way.

    Unlessm of course you merely mean that you have the right to lynch them because you believe that they are a danger to your or other children. In which case you're off the wall. Do you remember the paediatricians in Paulsgrove a few years back?...
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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by toxic avenger View Post
    You don't have the moral right to take another man's life unless in immediate self- or mutual-defence. Killing is never just. Not that any of this is an issue because the death penalty will never be back again in Europe in our lifetimes.
    Im going to agree on this one and there is always a way to do it. One option is through chemical castration to quell their urges. A lot of paedophiles are people that are oblivious to the hurt they are inflicting on people and psychologically are and may be beyond help. The Czech Republic was recently criticised for physical castration which for men meant the removal of their testicles, this was in a report by the Anti Torture branch of the EU (a panel or committee Im being lazy here not giving it the correct title but you know what I mean). A study from the states shows that some psychological help can reduce it partially (http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug03/newhope.aspx) but if used with chemical castration could drastically remove the urges or at least quell them.


    Perhaps not being a father myself Im not in a position to understand as others as perhaps once I have my own flesh and blood I may change but for now I think this remains the best option .
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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    Default Re: In Britain Jimmy Saville's name is poison; in Ireland the Christian Brothers get to celebrate!

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Im going to agree on this one and there is always a way to do it. One option is through chemical castration to quell their urges. A lot of paedophiles are people that are oblivious to the hurt they are inflicting on people and psychologically are and may be beyond help. The Czech Republic was recently criticised for physical castration which for men meant the removal of their testicles, this was in a report by the Anti Torture branch of the EU (a panel or committee Im being lazy here not giving it the correct title but you know what I mean). A study from the states shows that some psychological help can reduce it partially (http://www.apa.org/monitor/julaug03/newhope.aspx) but if used with chemical castration could drastically remove the urges or at least quell them.


    Perhaps not being a father myself Im not in a position to understand as others as perhaps once I have my own flesh and blood I may change but for now I think this remains the best option .
    Only if it is agreed or sought by the person themselves. Compulsory sterilisation is not acceptable.
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