Is Republicanism/Nationalism too Insular?

[Sidewinder]

Why do we have to be Irish, why do we have to identify as being Irish?

The prosecutions rests, m'lud

Im a died in the wool idealist!

I'd choose other words myself but I'll be polite

[Apjp]

Again we come back to the Republican mindset, why dont we think of ourselves as being from Cavan or Cork and see a better representation for ourselves that way. The Peoples Republic of Cork? We dont because we dont see it as being practical and this is the same case for Irish soverignty.Apjp you move at so much ease in Europe and seem so at ease moving in European cultures that I thought this idea would ahve appealed to you? This idea is all about empowering the working man. If I was to say that we take over NI that we then rule the roost what happens to unionists ? Do we become their imperialists, again this is all semantics...

This is true gibberish. The people of Ireland have a common social, cultural, geographical, and to a much smaller extent linguistic and musical history and historically as such tend to think of themselves as a people native to small island off the coast of Europe. I come from the Royal County, but I don't want a kingdom. I think you are attempting to point to ancient Irish Kings squabbling over land as an attempt to mock the concept of Irish sovereignty and unique heritage, which is laughable.

I move well through Europe because I am at ease with my ideas whilst learning from others whose companies and views I enjoy and often agree with. I doubt very much there are many fantasists on the scale of the swp as yourself out there, at least going on those I have known. All this pro and anti europe shyte is nonsense. We are distinct from Europe completely and always have been-and that is not an extremist or 'insular' statement, it comes from our unique history and more troubling colonial problems both past and present. less republican lecturers have said that in political economy classes I have attended, and I am a republican with a small r.

I won't be drawn into your ridiculous argument on Ulster considering those counties were always part of this island.

[fluffybiscuits]

What age are you, three? Who the feck in their right mind has a need to be seen to be a big lad, able to push the other bullies around? What's the lack in you that you have these fantastical visions of global power and weight? It's pretty nuts really when deconstructed logically.



Because large Unions are always in the end anti-democratic, centralist, authoritarian and corrupt. 5000 years of history tells us that. There will always emerge a core, and the core will always dominate the smaller, poorer or less-populated regions. Thinking otherwise strikes me, again, as rather naively infantile and utopian.

Its not a power hungry movement if such a move were to be voted on it would probably be voted down . The current set up benefits the corporate world at the moment, each country has a rate at which they can set tax. As was seen recently some countries pay a tax to a company in Luxembourg which it then writes off against tax in teh UK and no money goes to the exchequer. If we had a United Europe we could circumnavigate all of that and funnel the money into one central exchequer. We could ensure teh workers get a fair pay and reign in the companies abusing the system!

[fluffybiscuits]

The prosecutions rests, m'lud



I'd choose other words myself but I'll be polite

*rocks back and forward reading screen*

[Apjp]

Well it coiuld work similar to a Swiss model. This is our chance to build a state to rival that of the USA and create a counter culture that would stem the influence of other imperialist aggressors. Who said such a move would be undemocratic, you are assuming that ! Each persn would get a vote , its not going to be a one party state"!

This is nonsense. Switzerland works because it is a small sovereign nation state in which democracy is well distributed over a small population who like ourselves exist with an historic right to nationhood, freedom, neutrality and culture.

[fluffybiscuits]

This is true gibberish. The people of Ireland have a common social, cultural, geographical, and to a much smaller extent linguistic and musical history and historically as such tend to think of themselves as a people native to small island off the coast of Europe. I come from the Royal County, but I don't want a kingdom. I think you are attempting to point to ancient Irish Kings squabbling over land as an attempt to mock the concept of Irish sovereignty and unique heritage, which is laughable.

I move well through Europe because I am at ease with my ideas whilst learning from others whose companies and views I enjoy and often agree with. I doubt very much there are many fantasists on the scale of the swp as yourself out there, at least going on those I have known. All this pro and anti europe shyte is nonsense. We are distinct from Europe completely and always have been-and that is not an extremist or 'insular' statement, it comes from our unique history and more troubling colonial problems both past and present.

I won't be drawn into your ridiculous argument on Ulster considering those counties were always part of this island.

This pro and anti Europe shyte is as bad as the pro and anti British sentiment from Republicanism (or those who purport to act in the name of it!). Again our past seems to mould us and we seem to have this need to always fall back on it slighting some hurt that has been done to us. If Ireland went to a psychhologist or counsellor and spoke about past hurts, they would help Ireland to come to terms with past deeds and seek to make its peace with it. Ulster was part of Ireland geographically but culturally its half and half, again we use these things like language to really define ourselves, its really holding us back from our true potential...

[fluffybiscuits]

This is nonsense. Switzerland works because it is a small sovereign nation state in which democracy is well distributed over a small population who like ourselves exist with an historic right to nationhood, freedom, neutrality and culture.

Why cant Europe work as a soverign nation? Switzerland on a larger scale? We are going to get history doesnt work now but history is there to learn from the mistakes.

[Apjp]

Why do we have to be Irish, why do we have to identify as being Irish? Can we not see ourselves as all being human? We let things define us especially our nationality which seems to carry with it a preset determined number of stereotypes or ways of behaving, can we all not be humans with our own personalities reflecting on to ourselves? I can understand being Irish means we have an identity, a truly deep rooted psychological need that means we form like minded groups yet still lets us retain our individualism we dont want to be another face in the crowd . We can still have a United Europe and be individualistic at the same time working for the benefit of otehrs and ourselves...

Im a died in the wool idealist!

Well why for that matter do we have to be bloody european? Not fecking getting us anywhere but penury is it?!!

This is absolute drivel. You cannot hide where you come from,and you cannot escape your history-least of all Irish history, which is far ranging and thousands of years old and which cries out for a national right to determine its existence.

[fluffybiscuits]

Well why for that matter do we have to be bloody european? Not fecking getting us anywhere but penury is it?!!

This is absolute drivel. You cannot hide where you come from,and you cannot escape your history-least of all Irish history, which is far ranging and thousands of years old and which cries out for a national right to determine its existence.

We dont have to be European , we can be anything we want to be , Klingon if we wanted , its all just labels . I would rather a united world but even at that, that is a stretch for my imagination. We cannot hide where we are from but for the sake of uniting the peoples of Europe we could at least change our views to put ourselves as being humanity first...

[Apjp]

This pro and anti Europe shyte is as bad as the pro and anti British sentiment from Republicanism (or those who purport to act in the name of it!). Again our past seems to mould us and we seem to have this need to always fall back on it slighting some hurt that has been done to us. If Ireland went to a psychhologist or counsellor and spoke about past hurts, they would help Ireland to come to terms with past deeds and seek to make its peace with it. Ulster was part of Ireland geographically but culturally its half and half, again we use these things like language to really define ourselves, its really holding us back from our true potential...

I am the one who complained about the pro and anti europe labels, not you. You are happy with a moderated union of sorts. It's good to have a long memory, helps you remember your friends and stay wary of over intruding neighbours. History is the key to the future. Ignoring it is stupid and dangerous.

[Apjp]

The Lord Jaysus, I feel like you are an advocate of a Brave New World. Abolish free states and control the resources and all will love their servitude. Your utopia would more likely become a dystopia. The EU is already there.

[fluffybiscuits]

I am the one who complained about the pro and anti europe labels, not you. You are happy with a moderated union of sorts. It's good to have a long memory, helps you remember your friends and stay wary of over intruding neighbours. History is the key to the future. Ignoring it is stupid and dangerous.

I said we should learn from it but not look upon it as being the sole motivating factor for driving us to a better life. If we dwell on history too much we cant move on...

[fluffybiscuits]

The Lord Jaysus, I feel like you are an advocate of a Brave New World. Abolish free states and control the resources and all will love their servitude. Your utopia would more likely become a dystopia. The EU is already there.

I think this is the point where I need a cup of tea and go to bed! We are scared of losing our identites in a United Europe, that wont happen . Eg in Ireland society lets us see ourselves as being eg. Pleasentville in Drogheda in Louth in Leinster in Ireland , an extension of this would be Europe

Right Im now definitely off the bed!