Why can't we have a Coalition of Resistance in Ireland

[disability student]

Again, CAHWT is - gladly - too big to be dominated by any one group. If it was, wouldnt there be the infighting you mention exists in the ULA? It is overwhelmingly dominated by people who've never even thought about politics before but needed a means of fighting back and expressing their anger.

CAHWT is not a party it is a campaign, a social movement. It's really big, it's well organized and it is giving the government quite a few bloody noses.

Like i said (you haven't answered my question), who are the real leaders of CAHWT?

Have a good look at this article:

http://www.wsm.ie/c/united-left-alli...ld-water-taxes.

[Apjp]

What the hell is a ULA umbrella group? The Campaign Against the Household and Water Taxes? You might've heard about it? The boycott? It's huge and its powerful and every serious organization in the country is involved. It's too big to belong to any tiny left organization.



Sinn Fein is an organization with social weight, in government in the North and has been building for decades. Of course support was going to migrate there as the only established party remaining. The ULA is a brand new organization made of a few tiny little groups with serious differences of opinion within. Judge it in a decade's time. Even now I'd say we're the best fighters pound for pound. ULA members will deal with our own organizations growing pains - just keep organizing and fighting without passing comment on those who are doing their best and doing a lot.

A decade will be far too late. Our servitude will have been institutionalised by then. We need these withdrawal strategies before the next GE. Why does your party want to stay in the EU? It's madness.

[unspecific]

Like i said (you haven't answered my question), who are the real leaders of CAHWT?

Have a good look at this article:

http://www.wsm.ie/c/united-left-alli...ld-water-taxes.

You got me. *I* am the REAL leader. My real name is also Zurg and I command the minds of tens of thousands of people across Ireland through the power of my tinfoil hat.

A decade will be far too late. Our servitude will have been institutionalised by then. We need these withdrawal strategies before the next GE. Why does your party want to stay in the EU? It's madness.

The IMF arrived 2 years ago(2 years after austerity budgets began). And the ULA have been the only ones fighting them since they got here. And will continue to do so. But the only chance of a radically different Europe is if the people of all the different countries fight together for genuine democracy. Tomorrow the ULA is having a public discussion on the situation with an MP from the leftwing party in Greece - Syriza.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I honestly salute your good intentions unspecific75 but watching ULA I suspect it is an attempt to co-opt resistance into the establishment in Ireland. Stuck in a morass of gender politics last year before they took a summer break along with the Dail I have to say that the TDs in the ULA don't fill me with any 'resistance' confidence.

It is a pathway for dulling opposition and it runs right into the Irish establishment. I've had my hopes in the past of the 'Irish left' and to be honest I've watched it fall down into the same old ruts time and time again.

The Irish 'left' attempts to replicate its old WP versus SWP versus Communist (at the fringe) divisions in every issue that arises and is trapped in some timewarp of its own. I'm left with the conclusion that as the political and economic dynamics stand at the moment there is more hope for Ireland in anarchy and a tearing down of anything pre-packaged.

My grandfather was saying this thirty years ago whenever he read the newspapers- and he would have been old school Labour and a trade unionist to the core- 'Someday there will be a revolution in this country'.

Unfortunately it is going to take a Greek style austerity move by the establishment to bring it on. I would have feared the effect of that years ago but now I think I would look to it as a catharsis.

We are three years from the anniversary of the last attempt at a Republic in Ireland. I'd like to see another by then and a re-affirmation and that means destruction of the vested interest and total rebuilding. Only through anarchy can that come.

[Baron von Biffo]

Again, CAHWT is - gladly - too big to be dominated by any one group. If it was, wouldnt there be the infighting you mention exists in the ULA? It is overwhelmingly dominated by people who've never even thought about politics before but needed a means of fighting back and expressing their anger.

That much seems to be beyond question.

CAHWT is not a party it is a campaign, a social movement. It's really big, it's well organized and it is giving the government quite a few bloody noses.

Back in July the CAHWT organised a national protest march in Dublin. 400 people turned up.

A couple of weeks ago the farmers organised a protest march in Dublin. 10,000 people turned up.

CAHWT isn't even a social outing let alone a social movement.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

How can a 'march' or public walk with banners give a government a bloody nose? This might have worked back in the eighties tax marches when the government collectively or individually gave a blind shyte about votes but in Ireland it is a one party government effectively and I include the ULA and Sinn Fein in that.

An opportunity for people like Boyd Barrett to do some pretend outrage before he becomes a senator and goes on the piss with the rest.

[fluffybiscuits]

That much seems to be beyond question.



Back in July the CAHWT organised a national protest march in Dublin. 400 people turned up.

A couple of weeks ago the farmers organised a protest march in Dublin. 10,000 people turned up.

CAHWT isn't even a social outing let alone a social movement.

Not entirely true. The home helps have rattled the cages of Inda and the disability cuts were reversed thanks to the efforts of the ULA helping out. The farmers are out as they see something there for themselves and not for the rest of society. Cuts to CAP and other grants would drastically affect them and they would see their income slashed. Irish people are too indifferent to protest. We would have more success if we banned X Factor from TV and then urged them to march...

[MediaBite]

Information on tomorrow's march in London

Coalition of Resistance Press Conference

International contingent to join TUC demonstration



A high profile delegation of parliamentarians and senior trade union figures from across Europe will be joining the TUC demonstration tomorrow, Saturday 20th October. They will be hosting a Press Conference at 11.30am outside HMS President on the Embankment, near Blackfriars Bridge. This is the meeting point for the International bloc on the march.



Coming to London to express their solidarity against cuts and austerity measures in Britain, representatives from Greece, Portugal, Spain, France and Germany are at the cutting edge of the struggles in their own countries for economic alternatives.



The delegation includes: Stefanos Samoilis MP from SYRIZA in Greece which shot to prominence in recent elections, under the leadership of Alexis Tspiras; Marisa Mathias MEP from Bloco de Esquerda, in the leadership of the recent massive demonstrations in Portugal; Florian Wilde from Die Linke, Germany’s successful left party; Elisabeth Gauthier from the French Communist Party, prominent in the Front de Gauche; Giorgos Charisis from the ADEDY trade union federation of Greece; Haralambos Kokkinos, Vice-president of the DOE primary education trade union of Greece; Dimitris Gkinis of the OLME secondary education trade union of Greece; Annick Coupe, leader of the Solidaire trade union of France, and many others. (full list below note 1)



Today The Guardian published a letter from the delegation, explaining why they are marching in London. (text below note 2)



……………….said:

‘People are facing poverty, hunger and even death, as a result of the catastrophic and government-imposed failure of health systems and social services across our continent. Ordinary people are suffering on almost every front. Today we represent the peoples of Europe, standing together with the people of Britain. Together, in solidarity, we will defeat this onslaught – for the sake of the future of humanity.’



Press Contacts:

Frederic Leplat 07941893212

Paul Mackney 07974353709



Notes

1 Delegation members

Stefanos Samoilis MP, Syriza, Greece

Marisa Mathias MEP, Bloco de Esquerda, Portugal

Florian Wilde, Die Linke, Germany

Elisabeth Gauthier, French Communist Party

Giorgos Charisis, ADEDY union federation, Greece

Haralambos Kokkinos, Vice-president, DOE, Greece

Dimitris Gkinis, OLME union, Greece

Annick Coupe, Solidaire union, France

Dominique Giannotti, FSU union, France

Alfons Bech, Comissions Obreres of Catalonia, Spain

Anders Svensson, Welfare not Profit, Sweden

Verveine Angeli, Attac, France

Christian Pigeon, SUD PTT, France

Nicolas Galepides, SUD PTT France

Fred Madelin, SUD PTT France

Myriam Djegham, Les Comités action contre l'Austérité en Europe, Belgium

Athanasios Kikinis, DOE, Greece

Loukas Korfiatis, OLME union, Greece

Myriam Bourgy, Committee for the Abolition of Third World Debt, Belgium



2 The Guardian letter text 19.10.12

‘Europe is plunging deeper into crisis. Its governments are continuing with their failed austerity policies in spite of the ever-increasing struggles of the peoples of Europe in defence of the social and economic gains made over many decades. The economic crisis has increasingly become a social and political crisis as people face poverty, hunger and even death. Those who oppose austerity must work together to reject policies which leave the majority of our populations in hardship and misery. That is why we have come to London and tomorrow we will march on the TUC demonstration, A Future that Works, alongside the people of this country, against austerity and for a future that works.’

[Dr. FIVE]

Good discussion live now on tomorrow's march in London & the TUC

http://icecast.commedia.org.uk:8000/...nce_hi.mp3.m3u

[unspecific]

I honestly salute your good intentions unspecific75 but watching ULA I suspect it is an attempt to co-opt resistance into the establishment in Ireland. Stuck in a morass of gender politics last year before they took a summer break along with the Dail I have to say that the TDs in the ULA don't fill me with any 'resistance' confidence.

It is a pathway for dulling opposition and it runs right into the Irish establishment. I've had my hopes in the past of the 'Irish left' and to be honest I've watched it fall down into the same old ruts time and time again.

The Irish 'left' attempts to replicate its old WP versus SWP versus Communist (at the fringe) divisions in every issue that arises and is trapped in some timewarp of its own. I'm left with the conclusion that as the political and economic dynamics stand at the moment there is more hope for Ireland in anarchy and a tearing down of anything pre-packaged.

My grandfather was saying this thirty years ago whenever he read the newspapers- and he would have been old school Labour and a trade unionist to the core- 'Someday there will be a revolution in this country'.

Unfortunately it is going to take a Greek style austerity move by the establishment to bring it on. I would have feared the effect of that years ago but now I think I would look to it as a catharsis.

We are three years from the anniversary of the last attempt at a Republic in Ireland. I'd like to see another by then and a re-affirmation and that means destruction of the vested interest and total rebuilding. Only through anarchy can that come.

Joe Higgins and other revolutionary socialists are trying to dull and co-opt resistance into the establishment? Equal rights for women is being stuck in a morass? I have never met a member from the Workers Party. As far as I know they only exist on paper.

Captain, this is all a bit bonkers and displaced from reality.

How can a 'march' or public walk with banners give a government a bloody nose? This might have worked back in the eighties tax marches when the government collectively or individually gave a blind shyte about votes but in Ireland it is a one party government effectively and I include the ULA and Sinn Fein in that.

An opportunity for people like Boyd Barrett to do some pretend outrage before he becomes a senator and goes on the piss with the rest.

Ask yourself why there won't be a bill for e1000 in your letterbox on January 1st 2013 and along with another water bill of e200. That's a material difference that people of this country have achieved. Far, far, far more than anything CoR have achieved.

*The ULA doesnt stand for the Seanad and calls for it to scrapped immediately as an undemocratic elitist institution.

[Garibaldy]

I have never met a member from the Workers Party. As far as I know they only exist on paper.

I must be a figment of my own imagination.

[Baron von Biffo]

I must be a figment of my own imagination.

Yesterday we had Cartesians, today it's solipsists.

PW - Philosophers World.

[Apjp]

You got me. *I* am the REAL leader. My real name is also Zurg and I command the minds of tens of thousands of people across Ireland through the power of my tinfoil hat.



The IMF arrived 2 years ago(2 years after austerity budgets began). And the ULA have been the only ones fighting them since they got here. And will continue to do so. But the only chance of a radically different Europe is if the people of all the different countries fight together for genuine democracy. Tomorrow the ULA is having a public discussion on the situation with an MP from the leftwing party in Greece - Syriza.

This is nonsense. We need to focus on getting Irish sovereignty back, and to do that we need to withdraw from the EU. That would be our best service to the Greeks. Syriza wants to stay in the euro and the EU, which is madness considering what they want to do if elected.

I disagree fundamentally with any form of political union. Its romanticism on the part of those here who think the EU can be replaced from the inside or somehow reformed, when it can only be broken up by secession. The south of Ireland broke up the British empire by seceding, more or less, from the then Union of which we were a subject race. The same logic for me applies this time.

If there is one thing that we should know by now, it is that political union means others will always control our affairs.

[Apjp]

I honestly salute your good intentions unspecific75 but watching ULA I suspect it is an attempt to co-opt resistance into the establishment in Ireland. Stuck in a morass of gender politics last year before they took a summer break along with the Dail I have to say that the TDs in the ULA don't fill me with any 'resistance' confidence.

It is a pathway for dulling opposition and it runs right into the Irish establishment. I've had my hopes in the past of the 'Irish left' and to be honest I've watched it fall down into the same old ruts time and time again.

The Irish 'left' attempts to replicate its old WP versus SWP versus Communist (at the fringe) divisions in every issue that arises and is trapped in some timewarp of its own. I'm left with the conclusion that as the political and economic dynamics stand at the moment there is more hope for Ireland in anarchy and a tearing down of anything pre-packaged.

My grandfather was saying this thirty years ago whenever he read the newspapers- and he would have been old school Labour and a trade unionist to the core- 'Someday there will be a revolution in this country'.

Unfortunately it is going to take a Greek style austerity move by the establishment to bring it on. I would have feared the effect of that years ago but now I think I would look to it as a catharsis.

We are three years from the anniversary of the last attempt at a Republic in Ireland. I'd like to see another by then and a re-affirmation and that means destruction of the vested interest and total rebuilding. Only through anarchy can that come.

I'd agree by and large with that only that I see no catharsis or 1916 like resurrection of old ideals. Only permanent servitude and those sheeple who will keep each other in line moaning about the entitlement culture of emigrants.

There are plenty of paper tigers in Irish politics alright and the ULA is definitely one of them, as maybe even SF are. I'd welcome any anarchy here but I would not hold my breath. A friend recently put it to me that you can forget about the Irish people doing anything as in electoral terms, the vast majority of them are cattle. The only possibilities for change would be another minority taking armed action he said, and there's no sign of that anytime soon. I think we are looking at a long stretch of forced emigration, with record numbers leaving(its already at the highest since the famine) and those who stay behind refusing to believe change is needed.

Having recently faced entitlement jibes for studying in France, I suspect the sheeplism will go into overdrive as emigration increases.

[fluffybiscuits]

I'd agree by and large with that only that I see no catharsis or 1916 like resurrection of old ideals. Only permanent servitude and those sheeple who will keep each other in line moaning about the entitlement culture of emigrants.

There are plenty of paper tigers in Irish politics alright and the ULA is definitely one of them, as maybe even SF are. I'd welcome any anarchy here but I would not hold my breath. A friend recently put it to me that you can forget about the Irish people doing anything as in electoral terms, the vast majority of them are cattle. The only possibilities for change would be another minority taking armed action he said, and there's no sign of that anytime soon. I think we are looking at a long stretch of forced emigration, with record numbers leaving(its already at the highest since the famine) and those who stay behind refusing to believe change is needed.

Having recently faced entitlement jibes for studying in France, I suspect the sheeplism will go into overdrive as emigration increases.

Armed action can and must be the last line in effecting change in any country as there is too much innocent blood spilt and I dont have an appetite for affecting change by making someone stare down the barrel of a sawn off shot gun. What I do have the stomach for however is a nationwide strike that is called at the last moment that paralyses the whole strata of society from the hierarchy up and brings the countries to its knees. To walk we have to crawl and this is going to require a massive change in thinking but what the ****** do we do to change the thinking of 4 million people on this island? You see it yourself with the crticism you get when you go abroad, I get it for being in public sector, all the sheeple have been beaten into a way of thinking that has become a norm and anything outside the box is seen as being as eccentric. What we need to do as a group in society is stimagtise the way of thinking that leads to all this apathy and indifference . A change in attitudes will radically influence culture and thinking subsequently leading to a want to change . Once this change has taken place then all the divisions in society come gradually apart as people unite. We all dont have to love our neighbour but we have to fight for what is best for all of us and see that other people getting a raw deal is just not acceptable. There have been no leadership in any of the countries parties at all, Inda is taking it up the jacksie from Merkel metaphorically speaking with being told what to do. When your elected leader does that , it doesnt inspire confidence. We need a new leader, someone to inspire and cast of the shackles of financial constriants and debt and bonds and everything else that is holding us back.