The Fall of the BNP

**fluffybiscuits** · 19-10-2012, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by Apjp

Besides you point at the fascists threatening the stability of europe. Europe is run by fascists and it is anything but stable.

The ULA recognises that and seeks to bring about change . There is a lot of hassle if we are to rip out the alternative structures and put in place a new currency and withdraw from the EU. Do we lose freedom of movement or become a member of the EEA? We use the current structure that is there and use the threat of crashing teh Euro to get our best deal. The bank debt should have been federalised anyways...apparently though it was found to be illegal...

**Apjp** · 19-10-2012, 12:22 AM

Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits

Im with you all the way Apjp on your issues but the far right are sneaky bastards. Perhaps again this is my own insecurities coming through, its become a bit of an obsessive hobby but we are all fighting on the same side a chara! Besides tis better to believe in something than nothing as those that believe in nothing will believe anything which is the majority of the Irish people!

Be that as it may, 40% voted against the fiscalpakt. 40% of Irish people have consistently said in polls that they support SF or ULA/others. We need to go back to the original Irish way of looking at world affairs, one of the few positives from the Irish mentality. We need to think of everything in relevance to ourselves and how we might influence it. I would be confident that in 5-10 years, perhaps less, there will be an increasing demand for the taking back of sovereignty, even if a majority as you say remain gullible. When last I saw there was no Nick Griffin on our doorstep, and Declan Ganley despite all his pals promoting him, still has not been elected nor has anyone like him. Bringing down the current govt. and burying Labour in the next elections as well as stemming the cute hoorism that FF is trying to get away with in opposition should be the priority of all those who want to effect some sort of small change in the not too distant future.

Even if your worst nightmare came to pass, do you really think a sovereign Ireland would get involved in another European war to fight the fascists? A significant number of People here might be very gullible, but there is a growing minority of about 35-40% who seem to have woken up and it is this group and the diaspora on which change depends. A leftwing republican party which advocated seccession could fill this growing vaccuum. It should be in the interest of all leftwing and republican opponents of the status quo to work together, and not focus too much on things outside our control.

**fluffybiscuits** · 19-10-2012, 12:24 AM

Originally Posted by Apjp

Be that as it may, 40% voted against the fiscalpakt. 40% of Irish people have consistently said in polls that they support SF or ULA/others. We need to go back to the original Irish way of looking at world affairs, one of the few positives from the Irish mentality. We need to think of everything in relevance to ourselves and how we might influence it. I would be confident that in 5-10 years, perhaps less, there will be an increasing demand for the taking back of sovereignty, even if a majority as you say remain gullible. When last I saw there was no Nick Griffin on our doorstep, and Declan Ganley despite all his pals promoting him, still has not been elected nor has anyone like him. Bringing down the current govt. and burying Labour in the next elections as well as stemming the cute hoorism that FF is trying to get away with in opposition should be the priority of all those who want to effect some sort of small change in the not too distant future.

That we agree on whole heartedly.

Still we need to keep a boot on the throat of the far right...(now Im becoming extreme leftie fluffy, look what you are bringing out in me

)

**Apjp** · 19-10-2012, 12:30 AM

Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits

The ULA recognises that and seeks to bring about change . There is a lot of hassle if we are to rip out the alternative structures and put in place a new currency and withdraw from the EU. Do we lose freedom of movement or become a member of the EEA? We use the current structure that is there and use the threat of crashing teh Euro to get our best deal. The bank debt should have been federalised anyways...apparently though it was found to be illegal...

There is nothing to be gained from being a non sovereign country. If we stay in this union or this currency, no matter what concession we extract, we are giving in to an elitist agenda designed to make our historic ideals which we fought for centuries to obtain(albeit often influenced by returned rebellion leaders), sound like extremism and 'anti europeanism'. By staying in this union we are extinguishing our right to govern ourselves.

**fluffybiscuits** · 19-10-2012, 02:38 PM

Originally Posted by Apjp

There is nothing to be gained from being a non sovereign country. If we stay in this union or this currency, no matter what concession we extract, we are giving in to an elitist agenda designed to make our historic ideals which we fought for centuries to obtain(albeit often influenced by returned rebellion leaders), sound like extremism and 'anti europeanism'. By staying in this union we are extinguishing our right to govern ourselves.

There is a lot to be gained though through European Intergration. We wont erode our culture or our values through further intergrating ourselves into Europe. A federal united state would have the ability to deal with a world wide economic crisis and become an antidote to the imperialism of America and Russia that is up and coming at the moment. We can govern ourselves but through an alliance with other countries too. Its people like you and me and others here on this site that move at ease within such a United States of Europe. What is there to be scared of? A united Europe ensures better economic and labour conditions and equal rights for all citizens.