The Writings of Thomas Davis, Tone and others

[Saoirse go Deo]

Davis wrote a huge amount of editorials, articles, poems and songs for the newspaper "The Nation" in the 1840's - a very influential publication.

"What is the tone of the new journal?" asked one High Court Judge of another.
"Wolfe Tone!" was the sufficient answer.

Davis greatly influenced many republicans, both those of the day, the Young Irelanders, and subsequent ones like Pearse. Of Davis he said; "There was a deep humanism in Tone; and there was a deep humanism in Davis. The sorrows of the people affected Davis like a personal sorrow... he was a democrat in this truest sense that he loved the people, and his love of the people was an essential part of the man and his nationalism"

If our country is ever to recover from it's current plight, to stand on her own feet, to be truly free, I believe it is vital that we look back at our national heroes for guidance and inspiration. They set a fine example, the wishes and aspirations they articulated in word and deed are as just and valid today as they were then. We need people who as Davis wrote in his famous song, 'A Nation Once Again', act selflessly in the national interest;

So, as I grew from boy to man,
I bent me to that bidding
My spirit of each selfish plan
And cruel passion ridding;

Young people don't learn about Tone, Davis, Emmet etc in school. Of the 1916 leaders they learn what they did during easter week, that they got stuff thrown at them, and were executed. Of Michael Collins they learn about the squad and his death. The thoughts, ideas, aspirations and principles of all the aforementioned men are never touched on - At 21 I'm not long out of the education system so I know what I am talking about when it comes to what is taught in history classes in todays schools.

Unfortunately these men have been portrayed in such a way that if one mentions Emmet, the writings of Tone, Davis et al to an average person you'll get a roll of the eyes. People think that they are out of date - that's because they know nothing about them. They have been caricatured as violent, narrow minded, xenophobic and anti-British. This is utter nonsense, Tone's writings in particular are very relevant today, most of these "National Heroes" - if they can even be called that considering how they are being hidden away and ignored by the state - were incredibly visionary and progressive, even by today's standards.

People need to be made aware of these writings, people need to learn about them and their authors - they are inspiring figures, perfect for these bleak, seemingly hopeless times. Perhaps then the crushing apathy suffocating Ireland will disappear, perhaps with their example people will be stirred from their slumber. Obviously this doesn't mean there should necessarily be violence - but impassioned agitation, demonstration, anything other than the meek acceptance of the gross injustice many Irish are currently acquiescing to.

"When my spirit shall have joined those bands of martyred heroes who have shed their blood on the scaffold and in the field in defense of their country, this is my hope, that my memory and name may serve to animate those who survive me." - Robert Emmet, from the dock.


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Getting back to the writings of Davis and away from my own thoughts, is there a good compilation of his work available? Something akin to the excellent [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Wolfe-Cronin-Richard-Bennett/dp/0900068183/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1349828961&sr=1-7&keywords=wolfe+tone"]Freedom the Wolfe Tone Way?[/ame]

[Apjp]

Davis wrote a huge amount of editorials, articles, poems and songs for the newspaper "The Nation" in the 1840's - a very influential publication.

"What is the tone of the new journal?" asked one High Court Judge of another.
"Wolfe Tone!" was the sufficient answer.

Davis greatly influenced many republicans, both those of the day, the Young Irelanders, and subsequent ones like Pearse. Of Davis he said; "There was a deep humanism in Tone; and there was a deep humanism in Davis. The sorrows of the people affected Davis like a personal sorrow... he was a democrat in this truest sense that he loved the people, and his love of the people was an essential part of the man and his nationalism"

If our country is ever to recover from it's current plight, to stand on her own feet, to be truly free, I believe it is vital that we look back at our national heroes for guidance and inspiration. They set a fine example, the wishes and aspirations they articulated in word and deed are as just and valid today as they were then. We need people who as Davis wrote in his famous song, 'A Nation Once Again', act selflessly in the national interest;

So, as I grew from boy to man,
I bent me to that bidding
My spirit of each selfish plan
And cruel passion ridding;

Young people don't learn about Tone, Davis, Emmet etc in school. Of the 1916 leaders they learn what they did during easter week, that they got stuff thrown at them, and were executed. Of Michael Collins they learn about the squad and his death. The thoughts, ideas, aspirations and principles of all the aforementioned men are never touched on - At 21 I'm not long out of the education system so I know what I am talking about when it comes to what is taught in history classes in todays schools.

Unfortunately these men have been portrayed in such a way that if one mentions Emmet, the writings of Tone, Davis et al to an average person you'll get a roll of the eyes. People think that they are out of date - that's because they know nothing about them. They have been caricatured as violent, narrow minded, xenophobic and anti-British. This is utter nonsense, Tone's writings in particular are very relevant today, most of these "National Heroes" - if they can even be called that considering how they are being hidden away and ignored by the state - were incredibly visionary and progressive, even by today's standards.

People need to be made aware of these writings, people need to learn about them and their authors - they are inspiring figures, perfect for these bleak, seemingly hopeless times. Perhaps then the crushing apathy suffocating Ireland will disappear, perhaps with their example people will be stirred from their slumber. Obviously this doesn't mean there should necessarily be violence - but impassioned agitation, demonstration, anything other than the meek acceptance of the gross injustice many Irish are currently acquiescing to.

"When my spirit shall have joined those bands of martyred heroes who have shed their blood on the scaffold and in the field in defense of their country, this is my hope, that my memory and name may serve to animate those who survive me." - Robert Emmet, from the dock.


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Getting back to the writings of Davis and away from my own thoughts, is there a good compilation of his work available? Something akin to the excellent Freedom the Wolfe Tone Way?

Of course there should be violence. How else do you get rid of rent boys and occupying powers?

[Saoirse go Deo]

Of course there should be violence. How else do you get rid of rent boys and occupying powers?

You've missed the point I was getting at, many people write off what men like Tone had to say as they incorrectly believe that they have nothing to offer besides a call to go out and pike some English.

I actually don't think violence is necessary, if we were to emulate O'Connell's repeal campaign for example, a series of "monster meetings", that could be sufficient.

[Jolly Red Giant]

if you want to go back and look at 19th century Irish history then instead of the likes of Davis a more appropriate list of subjects would be the Caravat uprising between 1808-1816, the Rockite Rebellion 1821-1825, the Terry Alt Rebellion 1831 and the Land League in the last quarter of the century.

[Saoirse go Deo]

if you want to go back and look at 19th century Irish history then instead of the likes of Davis a more appropriate list of subjects would be the Caravat uprising between 1808-1816, the Rockite Rebellion 1821-1825, the Terry Alt Rebellion 1831 and the Land League in the last quarter of the century.

The Tithe War also...


It's writings though that I'm focusing on, and Davis was one of the most important authors of the period.

[Jolly Red Giant]

The Tithe War also...

In terms of significance - long-distance fifth place in comparison to the others

It's writings though that I'm focusing on, and Davis was one of the most important authors of the period.

I can give you a long list of writings as well - Davis was a wetbag liberal nationalist whose head was in the clouds.

[Saoirse go Deo]

In terms of significance - long-distance fifth place in comparison to the others


I can give you a long list of writings as well - Davis was a wetbag liberal nationalist whose head was in the clouds.

If you're an idealist your head is in the clouds? Idealism should be applauded, not mocked. As is apparent I don't agree with your assessment of Davis.

No disrespect, but I'll rank people likes Pearse's take on Davis above yours;

‘Character is the greatest thing in a man, and Davis’s character was such as the Apollo Belvedere is said to be in the physical world - in his presence all men stood more erect. The romans had a noble word which summed up all moral beauty and civic valour, the word virtus. If English had as noble a word as that it would be the word to apply to the thing which made Thomas Davis so great a man.’

Also,

"That [Thomas] Davis would have achieved Irish nationhood by peaceful means if he could, is undoubted. Let it not be a reproach against Davis. Obviously, if a nation can obtain its freedom without blood-shed, it is its duty so to obtain it.

Those of us who believe that, in the circumstances of Ireland, it is not possible to obtain our freedom without bloodshed will admit thus much. If England, after due pressure, were to say to us, ‘Here, take Ireland, no one would be so foolish as to answer, ‘No, we’d rather fight you for it.’ But things like that do not happen." - Patrick Pearse, 'The Spiritual Nation'

"Wetbag liberal nationalist" indeed.

[Jolly Red Giant]

No disrespect, but I'll rank people likes Pearse's take on Davis above yours;

One idealist having a wet dream over another idealist - I can see the trend.

[Garibaldy]

"Wetbag liberal nationalism" was of course a progressive force in the early C19th in most places, given the fact that the victory of the old regime powers over Napoleon had ushered in a 30 year period of reaction across most of Europe.

[Jolly Red Giant]

"Wetbag liberal nationalism" was of course a progressive force in the early C19th in most places, given the fact that the victory of the old regime powers over Napoleon had ushered in a 30 year period of reaction across most of Europe.

I suppose Davis could be classed as being a step up from the nepotism and corruption of O'Connell.

[Apjp]

You've missed the point I was getting at, many people write off what men like Tone had to say as they incorrectly believe that they have nothing to offer besides a call to go out and pike some English.

I actually don't think violence is necessary, if we were to emulate O'Connell's repeal campaign for example, a series of "monster meetings", that could be sufficient.

O' Connell probably gave the English the excuse they needed to starve the Irish. He had millions of people meeting him in his carriage. Didn't do them any good a few years later. Our independence must be had at all hazards.

[Apjp]

In terms of significance - long-distance fifth place in comparison to the others


I can give you a long list of writings as well - Davis was a wetbag liberal nationalist whose head was in the clouds.

head in the clouds, as opposed to the ULA?

[Apjp]

I wouldnt mind him Saoirse. A lot of the people in the ULA seem to want to stay restricted to a 26 county basis organization and abhor any sort of republicanism. Republicans with left wing sympathies have a big potential appeal to an historically republican people, repressed to this day, far more than any anti-republican nonsense spouted by some heads in the ULA. All this shyte about being wary of nationalism mocking patriots and calling republicans nazis. A bit of republicanism/left wing nationalism is just what we need right now.

[Garibaldy]

I suppose Davis could be classed as being a step up from the nepotism and corruption of O'Connell.

Promoting a secular vision of politics based to a large extent on that of the United Irishmen, as well as a desire for actual independence, represent much more than a step up, especially in the context at the time both in Ireland and internationally.

[Apjp]

Having said that, there are certain people held on a pedestal who never did feck all for Republicanism. Daniel O' Connell who was well on record as being anti-republican having witnessed the French Revolution whilst studying in France was a Catholic elitist parliamentarian, not an Irish Liberator.