Depressing news emerging from colleges

[Slim Buddha]

FF are successful at recruiting in colleges because they concentrate on the social aspect of political life: mingling, networking, building friendships. A lonely 18 year on a campus far from home has a choice between debating the Russian revolution, the Spanish civil war or the wisdom or otherwise of the Popular Front in the 1930s with a ULA linked party, or the hyper-liberalism of the Labour party OR they can join a political group where the focus is on drinking, socialising and there are lots and lots of attrative members of the opposite or same sex running around (i.e. the FF society). Its a no-brainer. My understanding is that in one college the FF society would bring nearly all of the new freshers off to Brussels for a weekend either free of charge or heavily subsidised. The social connection is what suckers students into FF. I wouldn't read to much into it. FF will groom those who look like they might be politically worthwhile and discard those they have no use for. The unspoken caste system within FF only really kicks in when members reach adulthood. Most people do things at college that they're subsequently embarrased about; joining FF is one of those things.

YOu make FF sound like Jimmy Savile!

[musashi]

Of greater concern that a few remedials paying for an FF biro is the Times Education Ranking of colleges/universities where the two main Dublin universities are outside the top 100. UCC and Maynooth are somewhere in the 300s.

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.u.../range/001-200

Maybe the FF biros and the sliding rankings are somehow related?

I would suggest that the top 100 college ranking is an arbitrary measurement and devoid of empirical rigour. Even the numerical definition (top 100) is overtly psychological;

That said there is a distinct need to upgrade our educational system. Would suggest an holistic approach streamlining primary, secondary and third-level systems.

Am incredulous of Fianna Fail making a comeback in Dublin colleges, the mindset of many freshers is to seek friends, joining socs is integral to that.

[fluffybiscuits]

The FG heads didn't know what to say because FG and FF never articulate any sort of recognisable political philosophy. There isn't any there. Fundamentally, Ireland missed any kind of ideological debate on political philosophy and, upon independence, found that such trifles as ideological core beliefs and the like were luxuries that could be ill-afforded to a new state trying to find its feet.

All the evidence suggests that we are still trying to find our feet. Especially the electorate.

Hence the FG/FF free pint/biro/T-Shirt or whatever to induce the students to sign something with because they cannot put any sort of ideological argument forward with which they can convince their target audience. The target audience, expecting a pint or a biro or T-Shirt or something are certainly not expecting a political or ideological debate. And on it goes. A mindless vacuum, perpetuated out of habit more than anything else.

CMF is righjt tho, we cant deny that. Whereas we all enjoy idealological debate a lot of students wont go in for that and will focus on meeting up and networking. That is how a lot of parties get the biggest and brightest and perhaps the other left parties should be doing that and then have the idealogical debates next semester and not near exam times , build the networks first. If I was in college now and still being a member of the SWP I would ahve the whole organisation partying for the first few months and introduce them slowly to the principles behind socialism and how it works, if they dont like it they can join another party but we need to stop this stigmatisation than politics in the country can be cult like if you are on the left. My friend whinges about the groupies he sees around some members of the left and thinks it just looks plain wrong....he may be wrong but that is the image people are getting...

[Apjp]

The main Dublin colleges have now all held their "freshers", where students join various clubs and societies. All the main political parties have a presence.

I've been informed that Ográ FF are now the largest political society in many of these colleges, having largely recovered from a disastrous year last year.

I honestly cannot understand why young people would join FF, they are the party who have utterly ruined the fantastic future they were promised. I read yesterday that emigration is now at it's highest since the famine.

These students who join FF, in my experience, and I've asked a fair few, struggle to articulate why they joined - I suspect they are ashamed to say the real reason - networking and trying to get on the gravy train.

You have it in one, although I have not noticed much of a FF presence around DIT. It seems to be more of a Labour place these days, not that there is any difference. SF have no presence in my college(although they used to), neither have the ULA.

[Apjp]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Any fresher student worth his/her worth will be too busy shagging and drinking around this time to join any political group.
When the inevitable hangovers and heartbreaks happen, it should balance out.

I might have posted before on this site that I went along to a few YFG meetings in my college when I was 17. Richard Bruton was at them. His discomfort at my question regarding the bank bailout was evident. It should take anyone with a brain and a conscience about 5 minutes to see through their bull. Unfortunately that rules a lot of people out. The intelligence of FG members or YFG members seemed to me to be the telling thing. It was all about handing Minister Bruton his wine rather than tough questions, or going for pints to meet Inda. Lord jaysus I hope to god these eegits were only offered free pizza or something.

[fluffybiscuits]

YOu make FF sound like Jimmy Savile!

Can they fix it!

[Saoirse go Deo]

So it was a "If you want free beer, sign here." application form?

Regards...jmcc

No... In my college at least you have to pay four quid or so...

[Saoirse go Deo]

I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Any fresher student worth his/her worth will be too busy shagging and drinking around this time to join any political group.
When the inevitable hangovers and heartbreaks happen, it should balance out.

[CMK]

YOu make FF sound like Jimmy Savile!

Well, I don't want to be facetious about Saville but there is a similarity. I do think FF operate with a clear-eyed intention to ensure that the 'best and brightest' [well those who appear on college campuses between the ages of 18-22] are funnelled into their organisation for assessment as assets who might have a political future. In the same way M15/M16 used to recruit from undergraduates, FF take the same approach. And as the self-appointed 'national movement' they obvious believe they have first dibs on the undergraduate body: FG/Lab/SP/SWP/SF etc can take the leftovers. Obviously, for some freshers there will be a clear FF bloodline going back several generations, but they also need to pick up lillywhites whose family have no FF background. Equally obviously some undergraduates will arrive on campus with clear political positions and know who appeals to them.

The more serious point, which others have mentioned, is that to get and keep 18 year old undergraduates in a political organisation on campus you need to have a strong social dimension, stronger than the political dimension. You want them to be able to look back at their college years as a good time in their lives, not as the time when they came to a decisive position, after a couple of dozen meetings, on Trotsky and the Left Opposition in the period 1924-28 [that's a worthwhile topic but have a bit of fun first].

[fluffybiscuits]

Come on college were the best years of my life!!!

[Saoirse go Deo]

Come on college were the best years of my life!!!

I'm enjoying my time in college too, but I'm involved with political groups in college - I wish I was too busy shagging and drinking!

[Baron von Biffo]

I wish I was too busy shagging and drinking!

Lechery, sir, it provokes, and unprovokes;
it provokes the desire, but it takes
away the performance: therefore, much drink
may be said to be an equivocator with lechery:
it makes him, and it mars him; it sets
him on, and it takes him off; it persuades him,
and disheartens him; makes him stand to, and
not stand to; in conclusion, equivocates him
in a sleep, and, giving him the lie, leaves him

Macbeth. Act 2, Scene 3.

[fluffybiscuits]

I'm enjoying my time in college too, but I'm involved with political groups in college - I wish I was too busy shagging and drinking!

Go into the FF groupies, Any FF'er would be desperate for action ....