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Thread: Major reform of Junior cert planned

  1. #31
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    It was rude and I am surprised that you would mock me, Fluffy. Until now I have always been polite to you. Joining Baron von Biffo in snickering at members is not like you.


    I also wrote about the advantage of multiple choice tests for students from less privileged socioeconomic backgrounds which is not in the encyclopedia article.
    As for mocking members, that is your style which serves only to drive away ordinary members.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    It was rude and I am surprised that you would mock me, Fluffy. Until now I have always been polite to you. Joining Baron von Biffo in snickering at members is not like you.


    I also wrote about the advantage of multiple choice tests for students from less privileged socioeconomic backgrounds which is not in the encyclopedia article.
    As for mocking members, that is your style which serves only to drive away ordinary members.
    Hey apologies if you took offence, I just thought it was funny! You said you embelished it from wikipedia! No offence intended just thought it was funny all water under the bridge now!
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    On my ignore list.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Teachers not happy

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Teachers not happy. ...
    Of course they will resist it as it means less money for correcting papers during the extended summer holidays.
    They will also be required to correct their own students' tests like teachers elsewhere.
    Irish teachers are a greedy, lazy lot.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Welcome Robert BTW , think I remember you from that *ahem* other site
    Oh thanks fluffy biscuits . . . You'll be reading more of me . . . I'm not sure if that's a good or bad thing.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    Of course they will resist it as it means less money for correcting papers during the extended summer holidays.
    They will also be required to correct their own students' tests like teachers elsewhere.
    Irish teachers are a greedy, lazy lot.
    Ah yea. . . This is straight from the horses mouth. . No Wikipedia copy and paste going on here.

    The vast majority of teachers do not mark state exams.

    The State Examinations Commission employs citizens they trust to mark the marks to protect the integrity of the marking system. Unsurprisingly these happen to be teachers as they are very familiar with the course syllabi to be marked.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Ah yea. . . This is straight from the horses mouth. . No Wikipedia copy and paste going on here.
    Quit the rudeness.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    ... Unsurprisingly these happen to be teachers as they are very familiar with the course syllabi to be marked.
    A point I made.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by DCon View Post
    Teachers not happy

    I'd be surprised if a union leader mentioned "no promise of a pay rise"........

    I'd say the Mail are tapping into the teacher bashing culture that exists in this country just like the Sindo did a couple of weeks ago with a headline about teachers working "40 hours a week" with absolutely no details.....with the article going on to attack other public sector workers. . . Namely nurses.

  10. #40
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    A point I made.
    Of course it was.

    Why are you complaining that a small minority of teachers are getting paid to do a job from a separate employer?

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Of course it was.

    Why are you complaining that a small minority of teachers are getting paid to do a job from a separate employer?
    I am suggesting that they do not want to lose the income and this explains their resistance.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    I am suggesting that they do not want to lose the income and this explains their resistance.
    No.

    What they don't want is their work requirements and conditions increased substantially whilst their pay is going to be cut. . . . Which is not unreasonable.

    They also do not want to be marking their own students as this has the potential to create disharmony beyond the Junior Cert.

    Teachers aer employed to teach in most countries.

    In Ireland they are now expected to design syllabi, set course plans, record minutes of meetings, clean laboratories and art rooms (as the state won't supply assistants), carry out unpaid duties with responsibilities as department heads, photocopy for over a hundred students per week, attend parent/teacher and staff meetings in the late evenings.....I haven't even mentioned extra curricular activity.

    Now the Quinner wants more . . . He's "abolishing" the Junior Cert to bring in something similar with less subjects and a few hobbies. . . Oh and, er, the teachers can supervise, mark and assess their own students. . . . Presumably for nothing.

    And he goes on radio today to have the cheek to claim this will "liberate teachers" whilst simultaneously claiming that there will be no extra workload for teachers.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    No.
    Yes, they do not want to lose the money for marking no more than they like losing money for grinds when teachers have failed to teach students properly in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    What they don't want is their work requirements and conditions increased substantially whilst their pay is going to be cut. . . . Which is not unreasonable.
    It is unreasonable to be in a very well paid job while newcomers to the profession get a 30% cut for doing the same work. As for their conditions, they have a short work day, massively long holidays, super guaranteed pension, and even allowance for having the training for the required position!

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    They also do not want to be marking their own students as this has the potential to create disharmony beyond the Junior Cert.
    This is why I said earlier in the thread that schools should be assessed, not only students' performance. I also recommended that tests could be machine-scored and that such tests have higher validity and reliability than subjectively marked alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Teachers aer employed to teach in most countries.

    In Ireland they are now expected to design syllabi, set course plans, record minutes of meetings, clean laboratories and art rooms (as the state won't supply assistants), carry out unpaid duties with responsibilities as department heads, photocopy for over a hundred students per week, attend parent/teacher and staff meetings in the late evenings.....I haven't even mentioned extra curricular activity.
    All these duties are performed in other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by RobertW View Post
    Now the Quinner wants more . . . He's "abolishing" the Junior Cert to bring in something similar with less subjects and a few hobbies. . . Oh and, er, the teachers can supervise, mark and assess their own students. . . . Presumably for nothing.
    Teachers mark their own students tests in other countries.
    Not for nothing; teachers are paid an excellent salary (except for their newly-hired colleagues).

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    A disastrous dumbing down and should be resisted.


    I'm not sure why that is necessarily the case. In Canada there are no province wide examinations at any stage of secondary school and Canadian students consistently score highly on standardised international tests. Furthermore, unlike the USA, there are no standardised tests for application to college, students are simply accepted or not on the basis of their high school grades awarded by their teachers. Yet the standard of Canadian Universities is quite high. There are at least five in the global top hundred whereas Ireland has none.

    I never could see the point in the Junior Cert. While I might be pursuaded of the merit of the Leaving cert I think it sad that the entire secondary schooling of students is geared around learning how to pass a certain exam.
    Do not rejoice in his defeat, you men. For though the world has stood up and stopped the bastard, the (female dog) that bore him is in heat again. Bertolt Brecht

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quinn on Plank to talk about this.

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