Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456
Results 76 to 85 of 85

Thread: Major reform of Junior cert planned

  1. #76
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    On what basis do you believe more time is needed than an in-service day?


    As part of teacher preparation, being able to read a curriculum and assessment of learning should have been taught as a matter of routine. Where a change is made to assessment of students' performance, a workshop for a day ought to be sufficient time.

    We want teachers to feel comfortable with teaching the new syllabus and not be scared of it or lack in confidence. You dont learn everything in one day, it can take weeks to become acquainted. Teachers are not superheros...
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,845

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    We want teachers to feel comfortable with teaching the new syllabus and not be scared of it or lack in confidence. You dont learn everything in one day, it can take weeks to become acquainted. Teachers are not superheros...
    Degreed certified teachers have already spent years learning their subjects and a further year on how to develop curriculum, lesson and unit planning, and student assessment. No-one is asking them to start from scratch and earn another university degree. Teachers in Ireland are quite comfortable.

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    294

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    I wonder how CSPE will pan out in all this. That was such an easy subject, you were an idiot if you failed that.

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by Holly View Post
    Degreed certified teachers have already spent years learning their subjects and a further year on how to develop curriculum, lesson and unit planning, and student assessment. No-one is asking them to start from scratch and earn another university degree. Teachers in Ireland are quite comfortable.
    You are missing my point on the issue . Degreed certified teachers have the ability to do it but they do not have the capaicity in the schools or the support. Most of the schools are stretched beyond their capabilities and have to correct exam scripts, deal wih unruly pupils and now will move towards teaching and self assessing . A teacher is just not someone who imparts knowledge on to our children, they are mentors and in some cases to be looked into. My gut feeling is you have misunderstood the nature of the job of teaching and I mean that with all the greatest respect. The Unions are not responding to these changes as they think its a change from a handy number, they are changing as none of what has been implemented has really been thought out. This is the fault you see with unions, they sign up for something without really consulting members in some cases (Haddington Road anyone?). In this situation the teachers unions are responding to the teachers who are members. A one day course means sweet fa in the grand scheme of things, what point is it when we they dont have the support...

    Quote Originally Posted by RahenyFG II View Post
    I wonder how CSPE will pan out in all this. That was such an easy subject, you were an idiot if you failed that.
    We called is pastoral care!
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,845

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    ... Degreed certified teachers have the ability to do it but they do not have the capaicity in the schools or the support.
    I do not know what you mean by schools not having the capacity to teach a new curriculum. What support are Irish teachers lacking?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Most of the schools are stretched beyond their capabilities
    In what way are schools stretched beyond their capabilities to teach a changed curriculum?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    ... have to correct exam scripts
    Correcting students' work is normal routine teachers' responsibility all over the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    deal wih unruly pupils
    Maintaining discipline is normal routine teachers' responsibility all over the world. Good teachers do not have unruly students.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    ... and now will move towards teaching
    Oh Brother!

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    and self assessing .
    What do you mean by saying that the new English curriculum requires "self assessing"? Perhaps you mean teachers will be called upon to assess their own students learning which is normal routine teachers' responsibility all over the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    A teacher is just not someone who imparts knowledge on to our children, they are mentors and in some cases to be looked into.
    Fundamentally, teachers instruct students and provide them with the knowledge, skills, and attitudes to be successful in school and life. I would agree that some mentoring and role modeling is part of the profession although you lost me with the need for them to be "looked into".

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    My gut feeling is you have misunderstood the nature of the job of teaching and I mean that with all the greatest respect.
    Your gut feeling is wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The Unions are not responding to these changes as they think its a change from a handy number, they are changing as none of what has been implemented has really been thought out.
    The default position of teachers' unions is to resist anything that does not give their members shorter working days, longer holidays, and more money.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    ... In this situation the teachers unions are responding to the teachers who are members.
    I don't doubt it.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    A one day course means sweet fa in the grand scheme of things, what point is it when we they dont have the support...
    A lot can be learned in a day.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    We called is pastoral care!
    Sorry, you lost me again.

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    There are changes to implemented down the line for most subjects with the first being English. English will change ina number of ways. Teachers will need to be more IT literate (its easy enough to assume that most of them are). Marks will be allocated for an oral presentation (15%) for a topic for the research, development of the idea being presented and the presentation itself. Creative writing is to change and this will now make up 25% of the exam course. Teachers workload will now be more burdened with correcting self assessment papaers in that the school will do a lot of the assessments in place of an external examiner. There still is to be an exam at the end of the of around two hours duration . The continous assessment is going to be tough as well as giving homework teachers will to my knowledge correct the exams of students in their college (additional work). Irish literacy has fallen dramatically particularly amongst boys in the 13-16 age range in the last couple of years. Schools are now stretched as teachers are not being replaced, some teachers are doubling up on yard duty and teaching and then to top it all off their salaries are being cut . Class sizes are bigger than before and school waiting lists are crammed. Good teachers do have unrule students, it just takes one **** to try and act the alpha male before a whole lot of others get in behind him.

    The unions are acting on behalf of the members obviously and the members are not happy. The one day course is not enough. If you are an accountant are you seriously going to be able to learn in house systems in one day? Would you know where everything was in a shop in one day if you worked there? Training takes time.

    My point on pastoral care was an off topic comment, it was what we called CSPE but I never really attended as I skived off Fridays sometimes.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,845

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    There are changes to implemented down the line for most subjects with the first being English.
    This should make it easier in a way; one subject at a time. I'd have done it all at once for all the subjects.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    English will change ina number of ways. Teachers will need to be more IT literate (its easy enough to assume that most of them are).
    I did not know this. For any well-paid senior teacher who never used a computer and has never opened a book or attended a course in 30 years, there will be more time needed for a workshop on the use of technology in education.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Marks will be allocated for an oral presentation (15%) for a topic for the research, development of the idea being presented and the presentation itself.
    This is straightforward.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Creative writing is to change and this will now make up 25% of the exam course.
    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Teachers workload will now be more burdened with correcting self assessment papaers in that the school will do a lot of the assessments in place of an external examiner.
    Please, what are "self assessment papers"? Assessing students learning is routine right now. There is nothing new or extra here.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    There still is to be an exam at the end of the of around two hours duration .
    So?

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The continous assessment is going to be tough as well as giving homework teachers will to my knowledge correct the exams of students in their college (additional work).
    For Pete's sake, they should be doing this already.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Irish literacy has fallen dramatically particularly amongst boys in the 13-16 age range in the last couple of years.
    Something serious needs to be done, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Schools are now stretched as teachers are not being replaced, some teachers are doubling up on yard duty and teaching and then to top it all off their salaries are being cut .
    Class sizes have nothing to do with the curriculum changes in English, nor has yard duty. As for salary cuts, Irish teachers agreed to this for new teachers as long as their high pay was not touched.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Class sizes are bigger than before and school waiting lists are crammed.
    Class size depends on the teachers' contract and the new English curriculum will not have an effect on this.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    Good teachers do have unrule students, it just takes one **** to try and act the alpha male before a whole lot of others get in behind him.
    A good teacher would not allow this.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The unions are acting on behalf of the members obviously and the members are not happy.
    You don't say.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The one day course is not enough.
    I should not be so quick to judge. But if the teachers need more lessons on how to teach, they can be required to take some time off their months of holiday in the summer to attend in-service days or weeks.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    If you are an accountant are you seriously going to be able to learn in house systems in one day? Would you know where everything was in a shop in one day if you worked there? Training takes time.
    The apples are on aisle 4 next to the oranges.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    hiding inside Brendan Gleesons underwear drawer...
    Posts
    13,555

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    So if there is more on the use of technology in education you will admit you are wrong in that a one day course does not cover everything? More changes need more time to be studies as to how best to implement them. The self assessment thing that Im talking about is that the teachers will now assess instead of an external examminer.
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    3,845

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    So if there is more on the use of technology in education you will admit you are wrong in that a one day course does not cover everything?
    Of course, if the new curriculum in English requires the use of computer programs not already in use then I would guess more than a day will be needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    More changes need more time to be studies as to how best to implement them.
    The short instructional day allows for plenty of time for study by teachers.

    Quote Originally Posted by fluffybiscuits View Post
    The self assessment thing that Im talking about is that the teachers will now assess instead of an external examminer.
    These I would call teacher-assessed tests and reserve "self-assessed" for tests where students correct their own work with an answer key.

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    heart of Europe
    Posts
    24,486

    Default Re: Major reform of Junior cert planned

    Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other. ~Oscar Ameringer

Page 6 of 6 FirstFirst ... 456

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Share us
Follow Us