When does a person, become a person?

[fluffybiscuits]

One for all the philosophical minds to debate. There is an upcoming pro choice march coming up tommorrow, so in wake of that when does personhood begin, or more simply when does life become a person? Wikipedia has a very good debate on the issue and overview and insight into the situation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beginni...man_personhood

Personally Im a fan of the theories of Ann Warren who was a famous philosopher . Her idea was that :

Mary Ann Warren suggests consciousness (at least the capacity to feel pain), reasoning, self-motivation, the ability to communicate, and self-awareness.

A child is not capable of this until twenty weeks at least with very little in the way of concious thought.

[C. Flower]

Able to feel pain and pleasure. Not easy to establish, but not impossible, either.

It is worth erring on the side of caution - remembering that it is not that long since the medical profession believed that babies could be operated on in utero without feeling pain up to birth.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

The minute it forms its own opinion?

I'm waiting for the post-natal abortion debate. I have a list prepared.

[homer]

Can we leave these debates until the referendum kicks off/

As in the past we will have amateur canon lawyers civil lawyers, gynaecologists and moral theologians all spouting opinions
t

[Saoirse go Deo]

I don't know. And neither does anyone else.

[Holly]

I do not think the Frankenstein monster was a person because he was made from bits of dead bodies but he was a creature who could feel pain and emotions. Then again, maybe Dr. Frankenstein was both human and a god, if such a thing is possible.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qNeGSJaQ9Q&feature=related"]It's Alive! - Frankenstein (2/8) Movie CLIP (1931) HD - YouTube[/ame]

[riposte]

Tomatoes feel pain.

Studies have proved that tomato plants scream when their scarlet fruits are ripped from their bodies. Ripe tomatoes contain scores of mature seeds. A plant seed is a self-contained plant fetus. Give it some water, sun and warm air and it'll grow.

Many vegetables are immature when torn from plants. They are, in effect, babies or children. Many simply wouldn't taste good if allowed to ripen or grow to adults. They're ripped out of the ground while alive, and basically eaten alive. Others that suffer a similar fate: radishes, potatoes, turnips, parsnips, beets and green onions.

http://www.authorsden.com/visit/view...e.asp?id=11682

[fluffybiscuits]

Can we leave these debates until the referendum kicks off/

As in the past we will have amateur canon lawyers civil lawyers, gynaecologists and moral theologians all spouting opinions
t

Im coming from it from the point of view of being someone who believes in pro choice options.

[fluffybiscuits]

Tomatoes feel pain.




http://www.authorsden.com/visit/view...e.asp?id=11682

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqu...-83446,00.html

You can see they are the sort of people that would believe plants can feel pain too. Should we ban the after pill as it harms the zygote?

[riposte]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqu...-83446,00.html

You can see they are the sort of people that would believe plants can feel pain too.

I'm begining to think that the only pain you can feel Fluffy ....... is your own.

[riposte]

It seems none of you understand the definition of "pain." Pain is defined as a signal of present or impending tissue damage affected by a harmful stimulus, and thus is experienced by almost all multicellular organisms. The question isn't whether or not plants feel pain, the question is why is it okay to cause pain to plants but not animals?

.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqu...-83446,00.html

[fluffybiscuits]

.....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/notesandqu...-83446,00.html

Based on evidence from the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, a fetus of less than 24 weeks does not experience any pain. The reason for this they say is that there is no neural system to transmit the signals. If this was to be taken to be the cut of point for abortion then there is a case perhaps to stop it at 24 weeks. (http://www.thedailybeast.com/newswee...t-says-no.html) The issue is a lot bigger though I freely admit than just scientific, its also a huge moral issue. If we were to say that a fetus is a person from the moment of conception this would mean that we should ban morning after pill and blowjobs are cannabilism...