Political assessments of ESM

[disability student]

The German govt would have blocked this because loans are directly related to German's banks re any form of debt reduction.

It's nigh impossible to devalue and get back to normal which Argentina did but with their own currency. The point i make is that we don't own our currency as it's strings are pulled by Herr/Monsiuer govts with huge vested interests.

Good poster boy won't wash with them because they need every cent back to their own banks.

Heard from a young German businessman, who had said Euro was bad for Germany as his order books dropped from Deustmarks to Euro as it had remained the same since then.

[MPB]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...548973258.html

Jesus Christ, are these journalists only discovering this fact now?

They forgot the US banks by the way and the interference of the FED and Geithner in our desent to paupery on their behalf.

When are people going to realise that we are bailing out them, rather than them bailing out us?

Thanks be to god, we can,t afford it.

[disability student]

Gimme more the silver tongue had spoofed it again re Bloomberg news.

Irish Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore said an accord that paved the way to cut the country’s legacy bank debt won’t unravel as he sought to calm investor concern that German-led opposition could derail the agreement.

The legacy of the rescue is weighing on the economy, which almost collapsed in tandem with the bursting of a real estate bubble in 2008. Unemployment tripled to 14.7 percent in August from 2007 while austerity measures between 2008 and 2015 amount to more than 30 billion euros, or about 20 percent of gross domestic product.

Gilmore said the Irish government will “stay the course to fulfill and complete” its mandate, after Roisin Shortall resigned yesterday as a junior minister for health in the most high-profile exit from the government since it was founded in March of last year. Shortall resigned too as a member of the Labour Party’s parliamentary grouping, of which Gilmore is the leader.

My comments -Pensions & other perks et al.

“Europe needs a winner and Ireland is going to be that winner and I think that there is an appreciation of that in the other capitals in Europe,” Gilmore said. “That is one of the reasons why a very expressed mention was made in June of the Irish situation and of addressing it.”

The International Monetary Fund said earlier this month that Ireland would “significantly reduce” its financing needs in the coming years if it could replace about 30 billion euros of so-called promissory notes used to bail out former Anglo Irish Bank Corp. with long-term government securities or a euro- area bailout fund loan.

Gilmore is the latest Irish leader to try and calm investor concern that the deal might unravel. Prime Minister Enda Kenny told the Irish parliament yesterday that “there is no going back” from the decision. Finance Minister Michael Noonan said “the principle of breaking the link between the sovereigns and banks has been agreed by heads of state and government. No one has questioned that.”

My comments -Finns and Holland govts had questioned that !!!

Irish Central Bank Governor Patrick Honohan said he tends not to react to headlines generated by “some ministers,” after the German, Dutch and Finnish finance ministers’ statement.

It’s probably not surprising “that sometimes, it’s two steps forward and one step back,” he said at an event in Dublin today.

Link:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...t-unravel.html

[MPB]

Gimme more the silver tongue had spoofed it again re Bloomberg news.

Irish Deputy Prime Minister Eamon Gilmore said an accord that paved the way to cut the country’s legacy bank debt won’t unravel as he sought to calm investor concern that German-led opposition could derail the agreement.

The legacy of the rescue is weighing on the economy, which almost collapsed in tandem with the bursting of a real estate bubble in 2008. Unemployment tripled to 14.7 percent in August from 2007 while austerity measures between 2008 and 2015 amount to more than 30 billion euros, or about 20 percent of gross domestic product.

Gilmore said the Irish government will “stay the course to fulfill and complete” its mandate, after Roisin Shortall resigned yesterday as a junior minister for health in the most high-profile exit from the government since it was founded in March of last year. Shortall resigned too as a member of the Labour Party’s parliamentary grouping, of which Gilmore is the leader.

My comments -Pensions & other perks et al.

“Europe needs a winner and Ireland is going to be that winner and I think that there is an appreciation of that in the other capitals in Europe,” Gilmore said. “That is one of the reasons why a very expressed mention was made in June of the Irish situation and of addressing it.”

The International Monetary Fund said earlier this month that Ireland would “significantly reduce” its financing needs in the coming years if it could replace about 30 billion euros of so-called promissory notes used to bail out former Anglo Irish Bank Corp. with long-term government securities or a euro- area bailout fund loan.

Gilmore is the latest Irish leader to try and calm investor concern that the deal might unravel. Prime Minister Enda Kenny told the Irish parliament yesterday that “there is no going back” from the decision. Finance Minister Michael Noonan said “the principle of breaking the link between the sovereigns and banks has been agreed by heads of state and government. No one has questioned that.”

My comments -Finns and Holland govts had questioned that !!!

Irish Central Bank Governor Patrick Honohan said he tends not to react to headlines generated by “some ministers,” after the German, Dutch and Finnish finance ministers’ statement.

It’s probably not surprising “that sometimes, it’s two steps forward and one step back,” he said at an event in Dublin today.

Link:http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...t-unravel.html

How can Europe move forward when one part wants to punish the other, while still expecting the other to feel part of a Union?

The Gerrmans, Dutch and Austrians have managed to convince most of the World that they are bailing out the EU, while the facts are that the EU are bailing out their insolvent Banking systems.

[Greengoddess]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking33.html

Noonan hopeful for bank deal. It seems the Dutch have clarified things. Although Dutch politics at the moment are very complex.

[disability student]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking33.html

Noonan hopeful for bank deal. It seems the Dutch have clarified things. Although Dutch politics at the moment are very complex.

I don't trust Noonan's comments at all as he had gotten into the habit of spoofing as spin to shed a positive light on his stewardship of Finance department

'Hopeful' sounded a little bleak, not much of a game changer or seismic shift which Noonan claimed it to be, does it? That had backfired on them very badly. He made some other comments in the past, which he got it wrong or lost his plot

[PaddyJoe]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking33.html

Noonan hopeful for bank deal. It seems the Dutch have clarified things. Although Dutch politics at the moment are very complex.

Speaking to reporters in Dublin, Mr Noonan said the Dutch government had clarified that it was referring to insolvent banks, and that the statement was more about positioning on the banking union issue.

Doesn't really clarify anything, I'm afraid. Sounds pretty wooly to me. All our damm banks are insolvent so that not exactly news

[Greengoddess]

Doesn't really clarify anything, I'm afraid. Sounds pretty wooly to me. All our damm banks are insolvent so that not exactly news

Probably straw grasping on my part. A state of mind shared by many. When we run out of straws there may be hell to pay

[Dr. FIVE]

erm...

http://www.presseurop.eu/en/content/...nally-revealed

We came up with the 3% figure in less than an hour. It was a back of an envelope calculation, without any theoretical reflection. Mitterrand needed an easy rule that he could deploy in his discussions with ministers who kept coming into his office to demand money. [...] We needed something simple. 3%? It was a good number that had stood the test of time, somewhat reminiscent of the Trinity.

[PaddyJoe]

Absolutely ridiculous headline in today's IT over a piece about some guarded comments from an unnamed 'ranking' French official.

France at odds with Germany over Irish bank 'legacy' debt

So what does this French official have to say?

A ranking French official said euro zone leaders were “very clear” last June when they pledged to decouple sovereign and bank debt.

The official added it was in the “spirit” of the leaders’ discussions that pre-existing or legacy losses would be dealt with.

Asked whether Ireland could still expect to secure agreement on bank debt relief, the French official said: “That’s our hope. It’s also the spirit of what was agreed in June. But there could be conditions. We have a lot of work ahead.”

The official said the June communique that cleared the way for the ESM to rescue banks took into account Ireland’s problems at that time. “That’s the spirit in which we’re working,” the official said. “For us, anything that would contradict what was agreed in June would not be right . . . We have to implement what was agreed in June.”

“We are working on the basis of the statement of June 29th . . . It’s clear that it allows for the recapitalisation of banks,” the official said.

The official acknowledged legacy costs were not mentioned in the June statement, but added: “It’s not included or excluded, but it’s clear that in the spirit of the June discussions it was about the situation of the banks today. We cannot totally exclude legacy costs.”

Somehow out of those cautious and non committal comments the IT has managed to conjure up some idea that France and Germany are going to come to blows over Ireland.
Carswell, Beesley, Scally and Mac Cormaic aren't really doing much for their credibility by pumping out unadulterated government spin in the first three paragraphs of the piece:

GERMANY AND France are heading for a clash over Ireland’s bank debts as divisions deepen over the scope of a plan to use the European Stability Mechanism bailout fund to rescue stricken banks.

With Germany holding fast to the line that the ESM must not take on “legacy” debts in Ireland or any other country, France is pushing hard for a bigger effort to break the link between bank and sovereign debt.

The French position will strengthen the Government’s hand after a week in which Germany aligned with Finland and the Netherlands to say the ESM should bear only losses incurred under the fund’s supervision.

So apparently it seems that..

The divisions between Germany and France over Ireland come as they move together to advance plans for a European tax on financial transactions

Eh, as far as I can see only a French 'ranking official' has been quoted in the piece. Why isn't there a quote from a German 'ranking' official to confirm that there is actually a "division between Germany and France over Ireland"?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...324605357.html

[Apjp]

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...324605037.html In respect of our new found colonial status in Europe, the IT says we should celebrate our colonialised history as British subjects, and not merely commemorate the Conquest of Ulster.

[Apjp]

My Great Uncle was amongst the IRA men during the war of independence who was wanted by the British and ads were spread across the IT and independent looking for him. It looks like the celebration of a decade of spitting in republicans graves and of colonial-like servility has truly begun in earnest. People who buy their Heralds, Indos, IT's etc seem to forget the same type of press campaigned and propagated against Irish freedom/independence, even in the limited form in which it was obtained after a long struggle. 90 years on, little seems to have changed in their view that independence was a mistake, brought about only by bigoted Paddy phobic traditions in 4 counties in Ulster. No chance the Irish people actually wanted it for 700 years or that anyone died for it to help bring it about.

[PaddyJoe]

It really is depressing to see good journalists like Carswell and Beesley abandoning any kind of objectivity and inventing some kind of Franco/German schism over Ireland based on a few bland comments by some unnamed French official.
Absolute rubbish journalism and a measure of how embedded the IT has become with the government communication people.

[PaddyJoe]

Bang on cue here we go with the latest update from the dearies inside in Merrion St:

TAOISEACH ENDA Kenny has demanded EU leaders “stand by” their decision to ease Ireland’s banking debt, warning of damage to trust between member states.

Gwad, I'm scared

[disability student]

It really is depressing to see good journalists like Carswell and Beesley abandoning any kind of objectivity and inventing some kind of Franco/German schism over Ireland based on a few bland comments by some unnamed French official.
Absolute rubbish journalism and a measure of how embedded the IT has become with the government communication people.

IT paper has become govt's other mouthpiece and propaganda machine if you like. As you could see in previous weeks that leaks were given favorably in preference to IT than any other paper. Stopped buying that paper as other papers were cheaper even the British ones.