ULA - How to build a broad consensus

[fluffybiscuits]

It's interesting that Irish "socialists" have turned their backs on Connollys's famous thesis that the cause of Ireland is the cause of labour and that the cause of labour is the cause of Ireland. Being anti-imperialist it seems has been overridden by addressing "pressing issues" like a household charge.

I'm hard presssed to think of another country on the planet where the "left" is as poverty stricken in analysis as Ireland.

Let me reply in kind to your as ever endearing remarks Through the liberation of the people from oppression through financial security and an improvement in life quality so will come the united front that we all look for. Through uniting people and creating a common and shared and mutual understanding we can then effect change and create a Utopia. Somehow largely framing the national question as in such simplistic terms as the fight against imperialism as you have so looked at it fails to address the bigger picture, the emancapation of the people through struggle for a common good. Im quite sure you are pondering over this so will happily leave it at that for you to mull over a chara...

Meanwhile have a virtual hug from me They are free ....

[Sam Lord]

Let me reply in kind to your as ever endearing remarks Through the liberation of the people from oppression through financial security and an improvement in life quality so will come the united front that we all look for. Through uniting people and creating a common and shared and mutual understanding we can then effect change and create a Utopia. Somehow largely framing the national question as in such simplistic terms as the fight against imperialism as you have so looked at it fails to address the bigger picture, the emancapation of the people through struggle for a common good. Im quite sure you are pondering over this so will happily leave it at that for you to mull over a chara...

Meanwhile have a virtual hug from me They are free ....

I won't be pondering it at all I'm afraid. Marx and Engels dealt with Utopian socialists about a century and a half ago in a pretty through manner. There is not a whole lot I could add.

It might be an idea for you to read some of their stuff. That's a recommendation from me to you. Also for free...

[fluffybiscuits]

I won't be pondering it at all I'm afraid. Marx and Engels dealt with Utopian socialists about a century and a half ago in a pretty through manner. There is not a whole lot I could add.

It might be an idea for you to read some of their stuff. That's a recommendation from me to you. Also for free...

Didnt think you gave presents , Im chuffed !

Im well versed in Marx but Engels is someone Im not overtl familiar with, know the basics..

[Baron von Biffo]

It's spelt 'thorough'

Ah Jolly. Are you reduced to that?

[fluffybiscuits]

It's spelt 'thorough'

Come off it now you are scraping the barrell (I can never spell that word)..

Getting back and JRG might correct me , so the approach to the ULA..we all want the same result but we dont differ in ideaologies but just approaches?

[Jolly Red Giant]

Ah Jolly. Are you reduced to that?

[Sam Lord] is a self-obessed Stalinist with zero understanding of Marxism [MOD CF] there is a difference between reading Marx and understanding Marx) who looks down his nose at everyone from the Trotskyist tradition.

Getting back and JRG might correct me , so the approach to the ULA..we all want the same result

No we don't - there are many in the ULA who have a reformist outlook and many within the ULA who have a revolutionary outlook. But I suspect that everyone within the ULA wants to see the ULA become a mass force of opposition to austerity.

but we dont differ in ideaologies

Again - of course there are different ideologies - the point I was making is that the difference in political ideologies are not the cause of differences within the ULA. Groups and individuals with different ideologies can and have been working together within the ULA

but just approaches?

And there are different approaches and methods - indeed there are as many approaches and methods as there are goups and individuals. Differences of opinion and emphasis can be vigourously debated within the ULA. The difficulties arise when some people (e.g. the SWP) do not have any consistance in their approach and bounce around with the prevailing wind. It makes it more difficult to arrive at a working solution when this happens. Hopefully the recent announcement of an anti-austerity campaign by the ULA will see and newly developed consensus emerging with regards the approach and methods within the ULA.

[C. Flower]

I won't be pondering it at all I'm afraid. Marx and Engels dealt with Utopian socialists about a century and a half ago in a pretty through manner. There is not a whole lot I could add.

It might be an idea for you to read some of their stuff. That's a recommendation from me to you. Also for free...

Its still an idea to read the Utopians. Marx, Engels and Lenin had great time for them, provided they weren't taken as the whole story of socialism.

[Holly]

This thread has been allowed by the moderators to deteriorate in a boring spat instead of addressing the topic of building a ULA consensus.
I recommend we have a section of the forum for a few people to busy themselves with 19th century Communist theory and the rest of us can avoid it.

[C. Flower]

This thread has been allowed by the moderators to deteriorate in a boring spat instead of addressing the topic of building a ULA consensus.
I recommend we have a section of the forum for a few people to busy themselves with 19th century Communist theory and the rest of us can avoid it.

Name calling is unacceptable and I'm about to remove the few posts on the thread that have no on-topic content.

Censoring political discussion from any part of the site would be a completely different thing, and would be contrary to the rules of the site.

Mod CF

[C. Flower]

Let me reply in kind to your as ever endearing remarks Through the liberation of the people from oppression through financial security and an improvement in life quality so will come the united front that we all look for. Through uniting people and creating a common and shared and mutual understanding we can then effect change and create a Utopia. Somehow largely framing the national question as in such simplistic terms as the fight against imperialism as you have so looked at it fails to address the bigger picture, the emancapation of the people through struggle for a common good. Im quite sure you are pondering over this so will happily leave it at that for you to mull over a chara...

Meanwhile have a virtual hug from me They are free ....

I agree with you in saying that - but it would not be possible that such emancipation to be achieved without taking on the real, concrete political, legal, economic and state forces of the big imperial powers.

[Sam Lord]

Name calling is unacceptable and I'm about to remove the few posts on the thread that have no on-topic content.

Censoring political discussion from any part of the site would be a completely different thing, and would be contrary to the rules of the site.

Mod CF

This creates the impression that all the posts you deleted involved name calling. This was not the case, for the record.

[Baron von Biffo]

This creates the impression that all the posts you deleted involved name calling. This was not the case, for the record.

+1

[C. Flower]

This creates the impression that all the posts you deleted involved name calling. This was not the case, for the record.

Not the intention, and not the impression intended.

As I said -

I'm about to remove the few posts on the thread that have no on-topic content

I modded the name calling out, and deleted the posts objecting to and defending the name-calling.

In order to allow for a return to topic, please would any other remarks on modding or related matters be taken to a feed back thread

[C. Flower]

The ULA held a press conference "to launch an anti-Austerity campaign" last week.

Does it not already have one ????

The launch seems to have been a series of statements by ULA TDs, including Daly, in which only Boyd Barrett talks about austerity - the others only about the Household Charge.

http://www.unitedleftalliance.org/un...ust-austerity/

I can't see any indication of what this campaign is proposed to consist, in practical terms.

No call for public sector workers to refuse to implement cuts which damage health, risk life, compromise education ?

Just more of the usual language about protests and mass movements on the streets.

[fluffybiscuits]

This thread has been allowed by the moderators to deteriorate in a boring spat instead of addressing the topic of building a ULA consensus.
I recommend we have a section of the forum for a few people to busy themselves with 19th century Communist theory and the rest of us can avoid it.

Did someone call Sam Lord a Trot