Bishop Kirby saw paedophilia as: 'friendship that crossed a boundary line'

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

It is no accident that priests arose as a profession out of the early scribes. Scribes made their living out of the fact that they could read or write when the majority of humanity and certainly in the middle east were illiterate.

It was only a matter of time, as with bankers and any other group regarded as possessing arcane information, that they became corrupt through the seeking of wealth and power.

One common thread among priests, rabbis and imams is that they always, always support the notion that they are possessors of unique information. This whole area as far as I can tell arose with the scribes of Egypt, who became priests interceding with the gods and then challenged the pharaohs themselves when they became too powerful.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. In the modern day when you look at creeps like Sean Brady he is the possessor of degrees in philosophy, theology and canon law. He is educated enough to know the history of what he does- as are the vast majority of cardinals. They know their profession is a fraud.

[Andrew49]

Is that not extreme Mick?
There has to be a difference between brutally assaulting a child and being thick and stupid and self-serving.

The same 'thick and stupid' bishop made out-of-court settlements - of around IR£130,000- in 1994 and 1998 with two victims of an abuser priest in his diocese.

Source

Between 1987 and 1990, most Irish dioceses bought separate insurance policies to cover their liability for acts of child sexual abuse by priests.

But in 1995 serious legal issues arose between all of the bishops concerned and their insurer, the Church and General company, about what cover was or was not provided. Between 1996 and 1999, these issues were settled as company paid the bishops €10.6m, much of which was set aside to help individual bishops pay their legal liabilities arising from claims.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I'm surprised the bishops got away with that with the insurers. Seems to me the insurers could have had a very good case that the church took out insurance in the full knowledge they were facing considerable claims.

In most insurance contracts that would invalidate any insurance cover as the premium payer had undisclosed foreknowledge of circumstances likely to lead to a claim.

[Trow]

I'm surprised the bishops got away with that with the insurers. Seems to me the insurers could have had a very good case that the church took out insurance in the full knowledge they were facing considerable claims.

In most insurance contracts that would invalidate any insurance cover as the premium payer had undisclosed foreknowledge of circumstances likely to lead to a claim.

As if money heals. The same people taking out the insurance policies would tell you that the love money is the root of all evil.

So, would'nt it be considered equally as sinful to seek a monetary compensation for being buggered by a Priest?

[5intheface]

The same 'thick and stupid' bishop made out-of-court settlements - of around IR£130,000- in 1994 and 1998 with two victims of an abuser priest in his diocese.

Source

Between 1987 and 1990, most Irish dioceses bought separate insurance policies to cover their liability for acts of child sexual abuse by priests.

But in 1995 serious legal issues arose between all of the bishops concerned and their insurer, the Church and General company, about what cover was or was not provided. Between 1996 and 1999, these issues were settled as company paid the bishops €10.6m, much of which was set aside to help individual bishops pay their legal liabilities arising from claims.

Mad as a bag a bubbles.

If you were paying insurance for one your child's car and they had accident after accident, would you simply move them to a different car?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

As if money heals. The same people taking out the insurance policies would tell you that the love money is the root of all evil.

So, would'nt it be considered equally as sinful to seek a monetary compensation for being buggered by a Priest?

The church and priests involved certainly seem to think so. Although I notice that some orders which ran institutions have managed to scrape enough money together despite the impecuniousness of their Order to actually buy a manor house property for a comfortable retirement in the shires of England.

Their philosophical colleagues used to have to find a convenient nook around the outside of a temple in their old age throwing the bones for passing soldiers and telling fortunes.

Funny how even strict vow-of-povery orders manage to see out their days in large houses in nicely manicured grounds isn't it?

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

At one memorable point I recall the church and its orders were leaning towards 'forgiving' the victims of its pathologic paedophiles. Forgiveness for what they forgot to stipulate.

Then again the church always liked forgiveness. Mainly because it costs the church nothing and the selling of it has also proved more than profitable over the years from various princes and courts.

This Kirby loon was detailed as a 'counsellor' for paedophile clerics, by the way. 'There, there, did the nasty victim report nice Brother O'Leer to the authorities just for repeated rape, then?"

Spending time comforting and counselling child rapists is a tough corner. You'd have to have a certain mentality to do it. And I've a funny feeling Kirby had exactly the right mentality- it was the victim's fault.

These people are not well in the head.

[Trow]

Funny how even strict vow-of-povery orders manage to see out their days in large houses in nicely manicured grounds isn't it?

Like ''made men'' in Mafia circles. All the money goes upwards to the Dons [not Jesus] and after a lifetime of that you get ''looked after.''

I read of a ritual within the Catholic Church wereby ''any sin'' is forgiven. It involves crossing a certain river in Ireland and ends with staying starving and thirsting for three nights in an underground chamber on an Island in a lake.

The Devil himself appears and must be renounced. Said to cover you for murder even.
What healing process is there for the abused? Cash backhanders?

[fluffybiscuits]

Like ''made men'' in Mafia circles. All the money goes upwards to the Dons [not Jesus] and after a lifetime of that you get ''looked after.''

I read of a ritual within the Catholic Church wereby ''any sin'' is forgiven. It involves crossing a certain river in Ireland and ends with staying starving and thirsting for three nights in an underground chamber on an Island in a lake.

The Devil himself appears and must be renounced. Said to cover you for murder even.
What healing process is there for the abused? Cash backhanders?

Any more info on that? That would be worth following up for my blog ! They really believe it absolves them of all sins dont they?!

[C. Flower]

Like ''made men'' in Mafia circles. All the money goes upwards to the Dons [not Jesus] and after a lifetime of that you get ''looked after.''

I read of a ritual within the Catholic Church wereby ''any sin'' is forgiven. It involves crossing a certain river in Ireland and ends with staying starving and thirsting for three nights in an underground chamber on an Island in a lake.

The Devil himself appears and must be renounced. Said to cover you for murder even.
What healing process is there for the abused? Cash backhanders?

It sounds like Lough Derg on LSD.

[fluffybiscuits]

It sounds like Lough Derg on LSD.

You would have to be on LSD to on a pilgrimage anyways ...

[Trow]

Like ''made men'' in Mafia circles. All the money goes upwards to the Dons [not Jesus] and after a lifetime of that you get ''looked after.''

I read of a ritual within the Catholic Church wereby ''any sin'' is forgiven. It involves crossing a certain river in Ireland and ends with staying starving and thirsting for three nights in an underground chamber on an Island in a lake.

The Devil himself appears and must be renounced. Said to cover you for murder even.
What healing process is there for the abused? Cash backhanders?

Any more info on that? That would be worth following up for my blog ! They really believe it absolves them of all sins dont they?!

Yes indeed. The ritual absolves of the ''unforgivable sins'' and if i recall correctly the river to be crossed on your way to the Island is in Co. Fermanagh.

There's an iron caged cell in the underground chamber and you'd be locked in it. Monks would bring food and water daily but there's a variation on the ritual were the person starves instead.

I often wonder if the Island on the lake was hijacked by Christianity and the ritual twisted somewhat. It's just that for the Drui there was no more ''magical'' place that an Island surrounded by water in ritual. Add to that an underground/underworld and perform the ritual on Quarter days and no doubt a ''demon'' will come for a sniff at a potential Soul to steal.

C. Flower suggested Lough Derg. That might actually be the place.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Well most, (if not all) xtian dogma comes from far older belief systems. Far as I know from my own sniffing around the ceremonies of priests and canon law courts the 'errant' son of god would be called before the court and as long as he showed, in the judgement of the court, 'true contrition' then they were more or less obliged to forgive him.

This would be pretty much any aberrant behaviour although 'm not sure about the ultimate crimes under canon law- messing about with women which was a sign of being under the influence of satan and causing a death which was so forbidden as supplanting the role of god that this is why the inquisition always used to condemn heretics and hand them over to civil authorities for the exquisite burnings.

Child abuse is one of those things that can be forgiven readily enough as it is seen as a 'fall from grace in the sight of god' and the ceremony really was designed to restore the priest to the sight of god.

The child-victim didn't come into it in any way shape or form and still doesn't. The church won't admit that though as it likes to use the words 'canon law court' as if they are engaged in righting a wrong against the victim. The victim is in fact irrelevant as the victim is seen as an instrument used by the devil to tempt the priest. This is why you get bizarre statements in the media from priests who like to think the children were 'leading' the priest on and so on. It comes from the operation of canon law and is buttressed by the spectacularly primitive notions of good and evil in the world that exist in the pathological christian mind.

The psychopathic scum in a collar basically has to lie prostrate on the ground before the 'court' and with one hand on some ritual object such as a cross and the other on some other christian symbolic object had to declare that they were truly contrite and wished to return to the sight of god.

'Right you are' says the court. And off goes Brother or Father Molester to strike again. That is pretty much it.

[fluffybiscuits]

Well most, (if not all) xtian dogma comes from far older belief systems. Far as I know from my own sniffing around the ceremonies of priests and canon law courts the 'errant' son of god would be called before the court and as long as he showed, in the judgement of the court, 'true contrition' then they were more or less obliged to forgive him.

This would be pretty much any aberrant behaviour although 'm not sure about the ultimate crimes under canon law- messing about with women which was a sign of being under the influence of satan and causing a death which was so forbidden as supplanting the role of god that this is why the inquisition always used to condemn heretics and hand them over to civil authorities for the exquisite burnings.

Child abuse is one of those things that can be forgiven readily enough as it is seen as a 'fall from grace in the sight of god' and the ceremony really was designed to restore the priest to the sight of god.

The child-victim didn't come into it in any way shape or form and still doesn't. The church won't admit that though as it likes to use the words 'canon law court' as if they are engaged in righting a wrong against the victim. The victim is in fact irrelevant as the victim is seen as an instrument used by the devil to tempt the priest. This is why you get bizarre statements in the media from priests who like to think the children were 'leading' the priest on and so on. It comes from the operation of canon law and is buttressed by the spectacularly primitive notions of good and evil in the world that exist in the pathological christian mind.

The psychopathic scum in a collar basically has to lie prostrate on the ground before the 'court' and with one hand on some ritual object such as a cross and the other on some other christian symbolic object had to declare that they were truly contrite and wished to return to the sight of god.

'Right you are' says the court. And off goes Brother or Father Molester to strike again. That is pretty much it.

Paedophiles clasically never saw themselves as the victims and always said a child enticed them. A sick mind will never see the objectivity ina situation. Canon law is just a cop out for those who cant face up to the real laws in the country...

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

It is a layer of pathologies with the catholic dogma an 'enabler' of one of the worst. Paedophiles and other psychological outliers such as serial attackers or women and so on have one glaring thing in common- a noticeable lack of empathy much remarked upon by interviewing psychologists and police officers and so on.

We'll know more about this in the next few years as we see truly independent studies of the pathology of clerical abusers.

I'm betting good money that the New York observations made by psychologists hired by the catholic conference of bishops before they realised that their dogma might end up looking like an enabler will be on the money.

Extreme narcissism encouraged by parental figure (mother, usually, in the extremist catholic setting), sexual 'suspension' along with a prevention of normal socialisation with other children and then into that recipe chuck a fair dollop of catholic dogma and hierarchical notions along with the idea that the 'priest' is above the laws of man and linked to the god-ego- a self-justifying voice in the head that reassures the predator that he is right and everyone else, including society, is wrong. hey presto- one sexually deviant nutcase who can justify anything.