New Teachers Start Work on 30% Lower Salaries

[MPB]

You are assuming assuming that I am a longtime 'experienced' teacher - I'm not. There are shag-all 'gilt lined' pensions - long-term full time teachers ended up with what I would consider is a decent pension, one that hopefully will result in them having a confortable retirement, not struggling in poverty as most pensioners are.

Most of the teachers who lost their jobs were those on temporary contracts - some had been on such contracts for 10 years or longer.


I am not 'refusing' to give up anything - I am defending my terms and conditions of employment against the government of the elites who are intent on making me and every other working class person pay for their gambling debts.

As for my holidays - it was five days in west Cork using a pigsback voucher.


Public sector workers are not doing less work - they are doing the same work for less pay or more work for the same pay. Two years ago I was teaching classes of 20 students - this week I was teaching classes of 30 students.


Of course I pay towards your pension - you are entitled to claim the normal contributory and non-contributory pension on retirement that is paid for with my taxes as well as all other workers - I am not.

Furthermore - after a lifetime of contributing to line the pockets of the wealthy, working class people deserve a decent pension etc in their old age.


I am also earning significantly less than I was 5 years ago - I was working in the private sector earning significantly more than I am now - I am also paying more tax, working significantly harder and receive the same loss of services as you.

In the meantime - the richest 10% of the population have (and continue) to increase their wealth on a continuous basis since the crisis began.

As I said, you shafted fellow workers by allowing different terms and conditions for those without voting rights.

What did you do for the other 9 weeks paid holidays?

Imagine having to teach 10 more pupils than you used to. Poor you.

You do not contribute to my pension. I do contribute to yours. Do not try to mix up the OAP with private contributary pensions. We all pay for the OAP. I contribute to your private pension. You do not contribute to mine.

You might have been earning more in the Private sector 5 years ago, but I guarantee you did,nt have the protection of the Croke Park Agreement.

I have no problem acknowledging the fact that we are all being shafted by the elites, but some are doing a fair bit of shafting themselves.

Do you think that my kids are being well served by having teachers that resent one another, because one section are protected above another?

[Jolly Red Giant]

As I said, you shafted fellow workers by allowing different terms and conditions for those without voting rights.

I shafted nobody - the government imposed the cuts on newly qualified teachers. I opposed the cuts and if it had been put to a vote to reject it I would have campaigned in favour of rejection. However, the consequence of such a vote would have been strike action by teachers and you and your ilk would have been jumping up and down attacking the fat, lazy, overpaid and underworked teachers for going on strike.

What did you do for the other 9 weeks paid holidays?

I spent a considerable amount of time preparing for new classes that I will be teaching this year and the remainder studying for further qualifications to improve my teaching skills.

Imagine having to teach 10 more pupils than you used to. Poor you.

Actually it is the poor students that are suffering - particularly the students who are weaker academically. Having an extra ten students in the room will impact directly on the educational attainment no matter how hard I work.

You do not contribute to my pension. I do contribute to yours. Do not try to mix up the OAP with private contributary pensions. We all pay for the OAP. I contribute to your private pension. You do not contribute to mine.

Of course I contribute to your pension - you claim tax relief on your private pension contributions from general taxation that I contribute to. Furthermore you are entitled to claim the OAP which is funded from general taxation that I contribute to - I am not entitled to claim the OAP.

You might have been earning more in the Private sector 5 years ago, but I guarantee you did,nt have the protection of the Croke Park Agreement.

Actually my contract afforded me far better protection than the Croke Park Agreement - and for the record I opposed the Agreement.

I have no problem acknowledging the fact that we are all being shafted by the elites, but some are doing a fair bit of shafting themselves.

As I said before - I shafted nobody - and I have actively campaigned with thousands of others in fighting the austerity programme of the government and the ruling elites - can you say the same?

Do you think that my kids are being well served by having teachers that resent one another, because one section are protected above another?

To start with there are few if any newly qualified teachers actually getting jobs - certainly there are none in my school and none in any other school I have knowledge of.

Secondly your kids are suffering because of the raft of government cutbacks that have been imposed on the education system that is now bursting at the seams. Any further cuts next December could potentially result in the collapse of the education system as it exists.

[Holly]

I spent a considerable amount of time preparing for new classes that I will be teaching this year ...

A piece of cake.

and the remainder studying for further qualifications to improve my teaching skills.

Irish teachers are not required to continue in education as teachers in some other countries must. All the Irish teachers I ever knew were coasting without, I believe, ever opening a book once they landed a job.

Actually it is the poor students that are suffering - particularly the students who are weaker academically. Having an extra ten students in the room will impact directly on the educational attainment no matter how hard I work.

Being able to reach all the students in a class is what separates a good teacher from the useless ones.

To start with there are few if any newly qualified teachers actually getting jobs - certainly there are none in my school and none in any other school I have knowledge of.

But those already in the system are on the pig's back.

[MPB]

I shafted nobody - the government imposed the cuts on newly qualified teachers. I opposed the cuts and if it had been put to a vote to reject it I would have campaigned in favour of rejection. However, the consequence of such a vote would have been strike action by teachers and you and your ilk would have been jumping up and down attacking the fat, lazy, overpaid and underworked teachers for going on strike.


I spent a considerable amount of time preparing for new classes that I will be teaching this year and the remainder studying for further qualifications to improve my teaching skills.


Actually it is the poor students that are suffering - particularly the students who are weaker academically. Having an extra ten students in the room will impact directly on the educational attainment no matter how hard I work.


Of course I contribute to your pension - you claim tax relief on your private pension contributions from general taxation that I contribute to. Furthermore you are entitled to claim the OAP which is funded from general taxation that I contribute to - I am not entitled to claim the OAP.


Actually my contract afforded me far better protection than the Croke Park Agreement - and for the record I opposed the Agreement.


As I said before - I shafted nobody - and I have actively campaigned with thousands of others in fighting the austerity programme of the government and the ruling elites - can you say the same?


To start with there are few if any newly qualified teachers actually getting jobs - certainly there are none in my school and none in any other school I have knowledge of.

Secondly your kids are suffering because of the raft of government cutbacks that have been imposed on the education system that is now bursting at the seams. Any further cuts next December could potentially result in the collapse of the education system as it exists.

You might have rejected the Croke Park Agreement but the majority of teachers did not.

Hence, the simple fact that the more established teachers shafted the soon to be teachers, in order to protect as much of their pay, perks, pensions and conditions as they could.

How many teachers used their summer holidays to better themselves?

I personally know more than 25 and none of them did any such thing. All had at least 1 foreign holiday and half had 2.

The only downside to teaching as far as I can ascertain is bullying, of teachers by teachers and the ridiculous farce that has a Union representing both the bully and the bullied.

As I have said before, your profession is a disgrace and you only have yourselves to blame.

[C. Flower]

I can't answer for the whole public service, but I haven't had a gross pay rise since 2008 and am on a contract, so no job security at all. No union, either. Finally, for any PS staff on the higher tax rate, the cumulative effect of the pension levy on top of all other taxes means that they are paying tax at 60-70%.

I'm afraid that the increments are mostly therefore going straight back to Revenue, except for the lower paid. Which is possibly as it should be

And needless to say, the hiring freeze means working conditions are becoming intolerable in many places.

The division between private and public sectors is a red herring, apart from a very top tier, all have seen NET pay slashed by huge percentages.

The problem is, if they hack at it any more, so many owe so much on mortgages, the housing system will just collapse. And bring what is left of the banks with it. That is the reason behind the reluctance to cut pay any further.

If they came up with a mortgage resolution scheme, we might see some solutions. However, IMHO, 20% of mortgages either restructured or in arrears is a tipping point that we are perilously close to.

The logic (if one can call it that) behind paying new entrants less is that, when starting your first permanent job, you haven't had a chance to hang debt millstones around your neck.

While I agree that the new entrants 30% less pay thing is unfair, you may be comforted by the fact that a good fifty percent of the older teachers are probably worse off than the new, once one subtracts mortgage repayments from their net pay....

You should be able to join a Union. I was on long term Contract in the public sector and was able to join. People on long term repeat Contracts in the public sector also have some rights.

[DCon]

Dublin Teachers, from the Unions that negotiated the pay cuts for new entrants, are staging a protest today. Next week they are on holiday so that would never do

Members of the three main teaching unions - the INTO, ASTI and the TUI - will protest over the lack of equal pay for newly qualified teachers.

New entrants to the profession say a raft of Budget and other cuts mean that they are now earning 27% less than their senior colleagues after tax.

ASTI General Secretary Pat King said that today's protest is about sending a message to Government that "there is nothing left to take from education" in the Budget.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Mr King said that the previous four Budgets have devastated Irish education, increasing class size and removing student supports.

Mr King said that teachers are very concerned that the Government may look at making further cuts in education.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1024/tea...y-protest.html

[MPB]

The Dept of Education are currently in the process of recouping money from teachers that subbed after the decision to reduce the pay of new entrants.

Seemingly they paid at the old rate and have written to subs asking for money back.

If the money is not given back voluntarily they will deduct it at a rate of 20 euro a week from their next pay cheque.

[Baron von Biffo]

Dublin Teachers, from the Unions that negotiated the pay cuts for new entrants, are staging a protest today. Next week they are on holiday so that would never do

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1024/tea...y-protest.html

It's sometimes felt that withdrawal of labour while on holiday isn't one of the more effective weapons in the trade union armoury.

[DCon]

The president of INTO on the news campaigning against the pay cuts she helped negotiate!

Unions must realise that they need new suckers to join, so they agree to cut the pay of non members then campaign for the cuts to be reversed..

[riposte]

Proper Trade Unions treat all their members equally. Less than 5% of the teachers are effected by this rule .... so they don't count. Trade Unionism has descended into a " we're the biggest gang mentality."

[Baron von Biffo]

The president of INTO on the news campaigning against the pay cuts she helped negotiate!

Unions must realise that they need new suckers to join, so they agree to cut the pay of non members then campaign for the cuts to be reversed..

I'm open to correction on this but is it not the case that the reduced rates weren't negotiated but imposed unilaterally by the state?

[eamo]

It's sometimes felt that withdrawal of labour while on holiday isn't one of the more effective weapons in the trade union armoury.

and one day you may see that sometimes even self employed workers must stand up and be counted...
as must any woman or man who does not want to be walked on.

I know, I know, off topic.

[Sidewinder]

And the greatest heist in human history rolls on, with the most selfish and sociopathic generation in history continuing to snort up the income streams of the next 4 or 5 generations to keep themselves in the wholly-undeserved position of entitlement to which they have become accustomed.

40% youth unemployment in Ireland, 50%+ in Spain? While the generation who f***ed it all up in the first place sit there in their accountability-free smug pointless non-jobs on their smug fat asses with their smug fat paycheques and smug fat pensions?

Most of ye on this site have some knowledge of history. You know how this carry-on will eventually end.

[Baron von Biffo]

and one day you may see that sometimes even self employed workers must stand up and be counted...
as must any woman or man who does not want to be walked on.

I know, I know, off topic.

I've never said otherwise.

[eamo]

And the greatest heist in human history rolls on, with the most selfish and sociopathic generation in history continuing to snort up the income streams of the next 4 or 5 generations to keep themselves in the wholly-undeserved position of entitlement to which they have become accustomed.

40% youth unemployment in Ireland, 50%+ in Spain? While the generation who f***ed it all up in the first place sit there in their accountability-free smug pointless non-jobs on their smug fat asses with their smug fat paycheques and smug fat pensions?

Most of ye on this site have some knowledge of history. You know how this carry-on will eventually end.

You seem very bitter.
I don't see any rational for inter generational strife and conflict.
Class is the fault line.
Well in my opinion anyway.