New Teachers Start Work on 30% Lower Salaries

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Basically this is the Croke Park Agreement stratified- the push to lower wages for new entries and reduce costs overall while continuing the bribery of the senior members of the profession who are quite content to see the ladder pulled up behind them.

The CPA was a slicing and dicing of the employee sector between public and private employees with the latter taking the brunt of austerity policies. Now we have the stratification within the Croke Park protected sector and slicing and dicing of possible opposition or strike action by dumping austerity measures only on new entrants.

The final act in all this will be once the austerity measures have been applied in driving down remuneration at the bottom sector- a removal of the CPA altogether. The other shoe will drop and the senior public servants and civil servants will then be casting about for support to oppose it and none will be forthcoming.

The one thing you can count on is that senior teachers will not strike for anything other than their own interests. When their own interests are threatened as they undoubtedly will be they will have cut themselves off from any wider support.

The donkey keeps its eyes firmly fixed on its own carrot and brays noisily only when that particular carrot is withdrawn.

[fluffybiscuits]

I'm self-employed. I don't have the luxury of working only 6-7 hours a day with weekends off and 4 months holidays. I don't have the kind of job where I can take a sabatical to have a political "career" and still have a job waiting when it doesn't work out. So guess what - I really don't give a damn about a bunch of whiney, overpaid gits. Teachers are, as a group, overpaid and underworked.

If they don't make the grades - fire them. The education of future generations is too precious to leave to a bunch of talentless lowbrow lifers who are just there for the money. Only the best should be hired - teaching should not be a dumping ground for the otherwise unemployable.

Regards...jmcc

Teachers do care for their jobs but there is two issues to hand. Firstly teachers are despairing at the conditions that they do get. As you are self employed you get to dictate the pace of business and are not someone elses wage slave. Secondly students are not motivated because of parents, societies and mostly peers. Students need to be motivated and need to see teachers as role models.

[jmcc]

The sad reality is that the education system is, for the most part, the perpetuation of mediocrity.

Regards...jmcc

[jmcc]

Firstly teachers are despairing at the conditions that they do get.

Boo hoo! I'd gladly cut the salaries and pensions of TDs, useless "senators", the President by 75% and improve the education budget if it would make a difference.

As you are self employed you get to dictate the pace of business and are not someone elses wage slave.

If you are self-employed, you have to be able to live with a high level of uncertainty. Most people cannot handle it because they don't have the mental resilience to deal with that kind of situation.

Secondly students are not motivated because of parents, societies and mostly peers.

Students need to find something that motivates them and inspires their interest.

Students need to be motivated and need to see teachers as role models.

I may be somewhat biased having gone through the Irish educational system and seen only a few decent teachers that were in any way motivational and inspiring. Perhaps more good teachers would be a start.

Regards...jmcc

[Baron von Biffo]

I'm self-employed. I don't have the luxury of working only 6-7 hours a day with weekends off and 4 months holidays. I don't have the kind of job where I can take a sabatical to have a political "career" and still have a job waiting when it doesn't work out. So guess what - I really don't give a damn about a bunch of whiney, overpaid gits. Teachers are, as a group, overpaid and underworked.

If they don't make the grades - fire them. The education of future generations is too precious to leave to a bunch of talentless lowbrow lifers who are just there for the money. Only the best should be hired - teaching should not be a dumping ground for the otherwise unemployable.

Regards...jmcc

Do you think that slashing salaries will increase the chances of attracting 'the best' to the profession?

[jmcc]

Do you think that slashing salaries will increase the chances of attracting 'the best' to the profession?

Increasing them, limiting the places and firing those who don't perform well would. (I guess you didn't expect me to advocate increasing salaries. )

Regards...jmcc

[riposte]

What is ASTI doing about this? Does anyone remember their campaign in 2001 for a 30% INCREASE for all teachers? They were lambasted from all sides for disrupting the leaving cert.
.

Yeah Richard, I remember that well .... my daughter was doing her leaving cert...... I asked her did she support her teachers..... she said ... "every single teacher in my school has a brand new 2001 car."

........ and this in the most deprived School in Ireland. (St. Michael's Estate.)

[riposte]

Increasing them, limiting the places and firing those who don't perform well would.

Regards...jmcc

The last teacher fired for "not performing well" was sacked in 1847.

[Kev Bar]

I'm self-employed. I don't have the luxury of working only 6-7 hours a day with weekends off and 4 months holidays. I don't have the kind of job where I can take a sabatical to have a political "career" and still have a job waiting when it doesn't work out. So guess what - I really don't give a damn about a bunch of whiney, overpaid gits. Teachers are, as a group, overpaid and underworked.

If they don't make the grades - fire them. The education of future generations is too precious to leave to a bunch of talentless lowbrow lifers who are just there for the money. Only the best should be hired - teaching should not be a dumping ground for the otherwise unemployable.

Regards...jmcc

Having a bad day?

Did the Brothers beat you back in the day?


Somehow I sense there is a wealth of bio detail that explains this departure from your normally sanguine posting style.

[Baron von Biffo]

Increasing them, limiting the places and firing those who don't perform well would. (I guess you didn't expect me to advocate increasing salaries. )

Regards...jmcc

It's the little surprises that make life worth living.

Places are already limited and pupil teacher ratios have got worse over the past few years.

Proper performance management is a given but we shouldn't be too surprised if teachers greet with caution any proposals that would make it easier to sack older members and replace them with cut-price versions.

[riposte]

I started school in 1953, into a classroom with 85 pupils and one teacher, Miss Lavin taking 3 classes, low babies, high babies and first class.

It doesn't inhibit my ability to take on the high flyers on this forum... indeed it appears to inhibit some of them from interacting with me......lol !!

The present state of things is my area is over-run by zombie teachers .... retired in their mid-fifties, in perfect health rambling from the local parks to Insomnia for numerous cups of coffee with no idea how to spend their gratuities or their pensions or how to make the day pass.

You would have imagined that all that practice on their long holidays would have prepared them for the harsh realities of life after school .

[jmcc]

Having a bad day?

Quite a good day in some respects. I've solved a few difficult problems.

Did the Brothers beat you back in the day?

Not really. But I saw how violent they were with others who were not as lucky.

Somehow I sense there is a wealth of bio detail that explains this departure from your normally sanguine posting style.

I guess it was a bad Will Hunting moment or two.

Regards...jmcc

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Well, look at the profile of teachers in national and secondary school systems up until recent times...

National school? Predominantly farmer's daughters or daughters of the middle class not quite bright enough for for a profession or desirous of living in London or the US. There's a major shortage of male teachers at national school level now.

It always was a well overcossetted profession in Ireland and certainly so because of the perceived social status of teachers in rural areas. That attitude of being the only Reader in The Village persisted up till recent times which is why there have been an extraordinary amount of teachers in the Dail. Without loss of benefit in the job kept for them in case the Ministry proved beyond reach.

It was only about 18 months ago that a teachers' union rep announced on radio that 'teachers are the creme de la creme of Irish society' and I don't think he meant rich and thick.

It is a profession with an Edwardian mindset at middle and senior level. A doctor, a priest, a garda and a teacher in most parts of Ireland constituted a settlement. And the teacher is not inclined to view themselves as anything other than on social parity with the other professionals I mention.

Can't help thinking of the Irish teachers when I see Blazing Saddles and Ms Johnson the schoolmarm's carefully composed letter to the Governor. Its the frontier spirit.

[Holly]

As has been already stated correctly, teachers in Ireland have a cushy job. Inflated salaries, short working day, the longest holidays of any profession, gold-plated retirement, job security (you can become a TD and when booted out of office go right back to a guaranteed position), and no heavy lifting. The new teachers will be doing the same work as 20-year employees for a lot less pay. The whole system of greed in Irish teaching stinks to high heaven.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

There's a sting in that tail though, Holly, soon as the slicing and dicing is done the senior teachers will get hit too. They think they are exempt and the ladder is up behind them but I'm pretty sure they'll get hit alright as the ECB/IMF government works its way section by section up the privilege line.