End The Horse and Greyhound Fund - It's Not a Sports Fund - It's a Subsidy to Book Makers and Owners

[Slim Buddha]

The thing about the thoroughbred breeding business is that it's a huge web of interconnected people from all walks of life and from all over the world. From stable lads to billionaire owners they're all part of the business.

Take one mare called Urban Sea, she was by an american stallion, owned by a Hong Kong business man and trained in France where she won a championship race that made her a valuable broodmare.

So they sent her to Ireland, because we had the best sires in the world standing here. The reason we had those sires here was because of the tax breaks for stallions here. The tax breaks meant that with foreign investment we could establish some of the worlds top studs here.

So Urban Sea started her broodmare career and went on to produce two Epsom Derby winners who were bred and trained in Ireland. Galileo one of those derby winners is now the best stallion in the world and stands here bringing in the best mares from all over the world. The other one Sea The Stars has been retired to stand here by his Hong Kong owner at the Aga Khans Gilltown stud, where he will bring in hundreds of the best mares from around the world.

Without the foreign owners and the tax breaks we would never have gotten the industry to where it is now and Urban Sea's owner would have sent his mare elsewhere. Success breeds success, but you can't stand still. Galileo has produced a once in a lifetime champion called Frankel, who is owned by Englands most successful stallion farm.



We've got to try and keep the best horses in Ireland, the €29 millon or so that helps keep the prize money higher here than in England is money well spent because it means there's an incentive for foreign owners to race here and keep their best horses here.

That's all without the benefits that the likes of the Galway races and all the other racing festivals bring to the economy. It's a win win scenario.

I suppose I have always been highly suspicious of this industry and some of the well-known well-heeled figures that inhabit it. Large tax breaks for billionaire traders in equine sperm does not sit easy with me but the employment it gives is undeniable. I guess there are good reasons for keeping it but I would like to see a lot more transparency in the business as a whole. For some reason, I believe the leading domestic figures in the business are the sort of people who would detest transparency.

[Stanley 2]

I suppose I have always been highly suspicious of this industry and some of the well-known well-heeled figures that inhabit it. Large tax breaks for billionaire traders in equine sperm does not sit easy with me but the employment it gives is undeniable. I guess there are good reasons for keeping it but I would like to see a lot more transparency in the business as a whole. For some reason, I believe the leading domestic figures in the business are the sort of people who would detest transparency.

Some of the top profilers in the bloodstock game are non-resident for tax purposes and spread the high-risk profits of their endeavours into other "safer" businesses, such as MUFC, 5 star hotels, pubs in UK, top-end London property, nursing homes holding company and have brought in several top-end currency traders to share their risks.

Together they are able to take on some of the oil wealth of the World and succeed, their horsey ability has translated well to other "games".

The strategy of tax effiency and risk-sharing has promoted these investors to near billionaire status and any borrowings are 100% asset backed, they could probably move this model to a handful of countries but they have long courted various Govts in Irl and are very much a herd of elephants in the sitting-room.

[Slim Buddha]

Some of the top profilers in the bloodstock game are non-resident for tax purposes and spread the high-risk profits of their endeavours into other "safer" businesses, such as MUFC, 5 star hotels, pubs in UK, top-end London property, nursing homes holding company and have brought in several top-end currency traders to share their risks.

Together they are able to take on some of the oil wealth of the World and succeed, their horsey ability has translated well to other "games".

The strategy of tax effiency and risk-sharing has promoted these investors to near billionaire status and any borrowings are 100% asset backed, they could probably move this model to a handful of countries but they have long courted various Govts in Irl and are very much a herd of elephants in the sitting-room.

Indeed they are, which makes their invisibility all the more startling until you consider our libel laws and the standards applied by our fourth estate.

[Stanley 2]

Indeed they are, which makes their invisibility all the more startling until you consider our libel laws and the standards applied by our fourth estate.

Totally correct, each and everyone of them would have your ass in Court before you could say the name "Denis O'Brien", however they tend to be men of their word and only display their claws if this is brought into doubt.

[fluffybiscuits]

We subsidise IT, pharmaceuticals, films, tourism and other industries as well. The principle being that we spend on the subsidy to gain benefits in employment and tax.

Surely we haven't descended to the sort of childish begrudgery that would rather lose any benefit we get than see someone we don't approve of getting something out of the arrangement?

The horse racing industry though is still the sole preserve though of the upper class. The industries you mention there such as IT, pharmaceuticals all provide per head value for money in terms of jobs that they produce but the tax breaks for the race industry only benefit the horse racing industry. Take into account that the horse racing industry also get four year tax breaks on stallions which they sell and considering these go for a fortune then there is mega bucks in this industry (source: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/06/06/00098.asp). There are also only 3,500 people employed in the industry as of 2008, with the mega bucks being poured in, that is a very small pool of people for a big resource of money (source:http://www.goracing.ie/AssetLibrary/...%202009%20.pdf)

[Baron von Biffo]

The horse racing industry though is still the sole preserve though of the upper class. The industries you mention there such as IT, pharmaceuticals all provide per head value for money in terms of jobs that they produce but the tax breaks for the race industry only benefit the horse racing industry. Take into account that the horse racing industry also get four year tax breaks on stallions which they sell and considering these go for a fortune then there is mega bucks in this industry (source: http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/06/06/00098.asp). There are also only 3,500 people employed in the industry as of 2008, with the mega bucks being poured in, that is a very small pool of people for a big resource of money (source:http://www.goracing.ie/AssetLibrary/...%202009%20.pdf)

Owning the top horses costs a lot but not every horse is at the highest level. Many 'ordinary' people are involved with shared ownership syndicates.

Racing isn't my game - I have a (very) modest interest in a couple of show jumpers - but it does provide a lot of jobs in direct staff and support industries.

[Monetpenny]

Fluffy,
The figure of 3,500 is stable staff only.
That does not include stud farm staff, jockeys, feed companies (2 examples in the report are Red Mills 140 staff & Gain 101), vets, farriers, transport companies etc.
The total employed which is set out on page 29 is 22,084.
If objectors are going to concentrate on the money then lets focus on the fact that the vast majority of money invested in horse ownership is lost.
90% of race horses don't win enough prize money to cover their costs.
Everyone seems to be focused on the solitary Irish horse owner who is making money on stud fees, but his 2 partners are non-nationals.
The other significant race horse owners & stallion owners in Ireland are also non-nationals.
They have horses in many jurisdictions & we can decide either to entice them to spend some of their money here or let them go elsewhere.
Are objectors aware that these owners provide a significant proportion of the prize money.
In the same report owners contributed €17.2m of the total €60.4m prize fund.
Additionally, owners spent another €289.8m.
Of this, €196.7m is spent on training fees, €14.5m is spent on training/farrier fees, jockey fees are €5.3m & €14.4m is spent on prize money % to trainers & jockeys.
All of this is taxable income.
The thoroughbred industry is a significant employer in this state & the Exchequer is a net recipient from the industry.
If people want to shut it down, then that's fine.
But has anyone worked out how much job seekers allowance would cost annually for 22,084 unemployed people?

[DCon]

Corruption, cheating, failed regulation. Not banks this time, but greyhound racing

In the critical case, which ultimately drew attention to the scam, a supposedly novice dog from Waterford (Mays Hurryonboy) came within 0.1 seconds of Dundalk’s course record on Jun 15, 2009.

He crossed the line 13 lengths clear of the opposition and 34 lengths ahead of his documented trial form.

The dog in question had been presented for the race by Newry-based solicitor Gary Haughey, the brother of the IGB’s officiating control steward in Dundalk that evening, Declan Haughey.

The report said all evidence indicated Mays Hurryonboy was not the dog that ran on the night.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...ds-222274.html