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Thread: The TD's who go to work.

  1. #16
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    It is one of many inherent flaws in the system. TD's worry most about being re-elected so a lot of their focus is diverted on to the endless drudgery of "clinic work", the ultimate oxymoron. Thiis activity does not take place in a clinic, but rather a pub of a dingy office somewhere and secondly, it is most definitely not work since this is not what we pay them for not does it serve any purpose whatsoever apart from adding to the reputation of the TD in order to get him or her re-elected.

    To refer to this as mindless dross is to elevate it to a status it really does not deserve.
    see thats just dross, bollox if you will. When i had an important problem (obviously involving the state) i tried to go to my local citizens advice centre, turns out it was only open 1 day a week, so I went to my local tds office and from there they helped me every step of the way, despite the fact that my ''family'' was from the ''other side''. Therefore, to me, local clinics are very useful, and seem to substistute some services that the state should provide. BTW , although it was the tds office the td themselves were not involved, therefore it didnt take up any dáil/td time.

    oh, and to be fair, the office was on a main street and was far from dignyness/old man pubness

  2. #17
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus View Post
    Yet the ones who don't offer clinics get criticism. Richard Bruton comes to mind.
    I know. Only in Ireland! It is really pathetic and the system as it stands now needs abolishing. There is simply no way that is should survive at all. A complete restart is needed.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogiol View Post
    see thats just dross, bollox if you will. When i had an important problem (obviously involving the state) i tried to go to my local citizens advice centre, turns out it was only open 1 day a week, so I went to my local tds office and from there they helped me every step of the way, despite the fact that my ''family'' was from the ''other side''. Therefore, to me, local clinics are very useful, and seem to substistute some services that the state should provide. BTW , although it was the tds office the td themselves were not involved, therefore it didnt take up any dáil/td time.

    oh, and to be fair, the office was on a main street and was far from dignyness/old man pubness
    Your post is welcome . It is an absolutely damning indictment of this rubbish system where the "patron*, your TD, is required to intervene in order to get you access to something to which you are entitled. The fact that the patron can "employ" people to effect this patronage is telling. Who pays for these people?

    Yes, the taxpayer. The taxpayer presumably picks up the tab for the premises too. And finally, your stating that the "clinics" seenm to substitute services that the state should provide is very significant insofar that the TDs want you to be dependent on their intervention to get you something to which you are entitled anyway. Dreadful nonsense.

    Where I now live, I would not dream of going to a politician to get me something. If I am entitled to it I get it, If I am not, I don't. This is how grown-up societies behave.

    The clinic system is really just bollox. Expensive bollox at that. But you seem to have bought into it

  4. #19
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam Lord View Post
    And odd thing for a partionist party to do it has to be said.
    is that the best you can do?

    Quote Originally Posted by eamo View Post
    and the Worker's Party.
    Yes - and my apologies to the supporters of the WP for the omission. I am sure there are others (e.g the Greens)

  5. #20
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    It's funny. This website says 'Adams has 75%' attendance rate and Indo looks at that as 1 in 4 missed which apparently warranted an extra bold disapproving front page headline. Very easy to see which news outlet is biased.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    There are, after all, not that many sitting days to start with. Two and a half to three days a week, during the short Dail terms. Three month's break in the summer. 99 days in total, of which Adams missed 22.

    I think it is cynical.

  7. #22
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogiol View Post
    see thats just dross, bollox if you will. When i had an important problem (obviously involving the state) i tried to go to my local citizens advice centre, turns out it was only open 1 day a week, so I went to my local tds office and from there they helped me every step of the way, despite the fact that my ''family'' was from the ''other side''. Therefore, to me, local clinics are very useful, and seem to substistute some services that the state should provide. BTW , although it was the tds office the td themselves were not involved, therefore it didnt take up any dáil/td time.

    oh, and to be fair, the office was on a main street and was far from dignyness/old man pubness
    The problem there isn't to do with the political or electoral system, it's because our public administration operates on the default assumption that anyone interacting with the state is attempting to defraud the state - An assumption that's been taken to hysterical extremes under Joan of the Six Hundred Inspectors.

    If we moved to a situation where the person we deal with in the PS is our advocate and facilitator we would do away with the need for TDs to do much of the sort of thing you describe.

    Unfortunately we're moving in the opposite direction. With fewer public servants and greater demand for services there's very little time for anything other than check that all the boxes are ticked.

    The inexorable decline from government to management, by which I mean treating government service provision as a business, adds to the problem. Centralising services might make sense for a business that exists to make profit but it can damage public services by making them less accessible to those who need them.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    The problem there isn't to do with the political or electoral system, it's because our public administration operates on the default assumption that anyone interacting with the state is attempting to defraud the state - An assumption that's been taken to hysterical extremes under Joan of the Six Hundred Inspectors.

    If we moved to a situation where the person we deal with in the PS is our advocate and facilitator we would do away with the need for TDs to do much of the sort of thing you describe.

    Unfortunately we're moving in the opposite direction. With fewer public servants and greater demand for services there's very little time for anything other than check that all the boxes are ticked.

    The inexorable decline from government to management, by which I mean treating government service provision as a business, adds to the problem. Centralising services might make sense for a business that exists to make profit but it can damage public services by making them less accessible to those who need them.
    Oh, but it has!!!!


    Because the main opponent a TD has in his constituency comes from within his own party, the infantilised electorate believe that an opposition TD cannot "bring home the bacon". So a TD had to regard his/her party colleague as the main threat to him or her regaining the seat and a place on the gravy train.

    This is at the core of the clinic sickness and is the prime reason for these damned things in the first instance. I am sure TDs with an IQ above room temperature would agree and would also agree that clinics are dreadful drudgery.

    However, multi-seat constituencies are one of the main reasons the clinic nonsense is necessary, or at least is seen to be necessary by a large number of public representatives and will remain as long as this system is in place.

    Appalling!,

  9. #24
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    Oh, but it has!!!!

    Because the main opponent a TD has in his constituency comes from within his own party, the infantilised electorate believe that an opposition TD cannot "bring home the bacon". So a TD had to regard his/her party colleague as the main threat to him or her regaining the seat and a place on the gravy train.

    This is at the core of the clinic sickness and is the prime reason for these damned things in the first instance. I am sure TDs with an IQ above room temperature would agree and would also agree that clinics are dreadful drudgery.

    However, multi-seat constituencies are one of the main reasons the clinic nonsense is necessary, or at least is seen to be necessary by a large number of public representatives and will remain as long as this system is in place.

    Appalling!,
    TDs live in a political ecosystem, change that ecosystem and you change the type of TD that can survive. If we did what I proposed above it would do away with the need for TDs intervention in routine citizen interaction with the state.

    Changing to single seat constituencies wouldn't make a blind bit of difference in this area because incumbents would still be as vulnerable to the ambitious councillor from their own party.

    What single seat constituencies would achieve though, is to effectively eliminate independents and smaller parties. For all that I dislike the Alphabet Soup I wouldn't want to see the system changed because we don't like the fact that people vote for the.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    TDs live in a political ecosystem, change that ecosystem and you change the type of TD that can survive. If we did what I proposed above it would do away with the need for TDs intervention in routine citizen interaction with the state.

    Changing to single seat constituencies wouldn't make a blind bit of difference in this area because incumbents would still be as vulnerable to the ambitious councillor from their own party.

    What single seat constituencies would achieve though, is to effectively eliminate independents and smaller parties. For all that I dislike the Alphabet Soup I wouldn't want to see the system changed because we don't like the fact that people vote for the.
    The system we have is fundamentally sick and needs to be eradicated and replaced with something designed to work in the 21st century. A lot of TDs are no more than messenger boys, their ill-fitting suits bulging with beer mats on which is written details of medical card claimants, cattle headage grant applicants and the like. It is truly wasteful nonsense

  11. #26
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. FIVE View Post
    Enda is in Dáil since 1975, Taoiseach now and contributed shag all in that time.
    He clocked in and got paid. Isn't that all they have to do.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mick Tully View Post
    He clocked in and got paid. Isn't that all they have to do.
    Good God, no!

    Think of all the clinic stuff he has had to do since 1975!

    It is not "work", true, but it is immensely time-consuming and this
    is, after all, their prime focus. Getting re-elected in order to get
    re-elected. For many of them, nothing else matters.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    The system we have is fundamentally sick and needs to be eradicated and replaced with something designed to work in the 21st century. A lot of TDs are no more than messenger boys, their ill-fitting suits bulging with beer mats on which is written details of medical card claimants, cattle headage grant applicants and the like. It is truly wasteful nonsense
    You do know what TD stands for?

    Go back and read what I wrote. It deals with the issue you describe without abandoning democracy.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron von Biffo View Post
    You do know what TD stands for?

    Go back and read what I wrote. It deals with the issue you describe without abandoning democracy.
    You know as well as I do that this system is totally damaged beyond any possibility of repair. The difference between you and me is that you prefer to tinker with it to try to improve it whereas I know the system is rotten to the core and needs to be replaced in its entirity.

    I would prefer to see a lot more democracy in the system but the only way of achieving it is to destroy this one first.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: The TD's who go to work.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slim Buddha View Post
    You know as well as I do that this system is totally damaged beyond any possibility of repair. The difference between you and me is that you prefer to tinker with it to try to improve it whereas I know the system is rotten to the core and needs to be replaced in its entirity.

    I would prefer to see a lot more democracy in the system but the only way of achieving it is to destroy this one first.
    I know nothing of the sort and perhaps the difference between us is that I prefer to think about the problems and how they can be addressed while you want to make big dramatic gestures with no regard to the consequences.

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