Ending Prostitution in Ireland

[Slim Buddha]

If you want to ban prostitution then start at the Oireachtas where their petty lordships can be found routinely for hire.

Or over at the Four Courts Bar and Grill where the elderly girls will even dress up for you Brian Lenihan used to be a private dancer for wealth creators.

The site owner expressed an expectation into the arena of poliitical prostitution on this thread. So glad you didn't disappoint her!

[fluffybiscuits]

The infuriating thing is that basically prostitution is only a recurring 'issue' because those who disapprove of it are forever seeking ways to disappear it. Currently their theme is to proceed on the basis that all prostitutes are trafficked or coerced in prostitution.

If they really wanted to tackle trafficking or coercion they would be in favour of legalisation. That way at least you'd have a better relationship between prostitutes and the Gardai and they could at least swap decent intelligence about any signs of trafficking or coercion.

Where a prostitute may be supporting a drug habit if at least prostitution were legal he or she could at least be in closer proximity to support services or rehabilitation opportunities if he or she didn't have to operate in the half-light perennially on the watchout for Gardai or some other apparatus of the state which is charged with arresting them.

The truth about Ruhama and the periodic attempt to eliminate prostitution by various attempts at criminalisation is that (a) it won't work because it never has and (b) these are simply attempts to reinforce disapproval of prostitution by working through the criminal statute book and are not directed at 'saving' prostitutes but simply reinforcing the notion of 'sin' or 'vice'.

Utterly pointless.

The principle ones behind the disappearing of prostitution in Ireland is Ruhama and Ruhama are...(drum roll please...).... Sisters of Our Lady of Charity and The Good Shepherd Sisters. There is going to be a religious element to this, they will be quoting the bible and all sorts.If Ruhama want to believe they can do good they should throw their might behind the campaign to legalise prostitution. In France the whole job unionised and in the Netherlands they are routinely tested for STI's and other health checks. If it is taxed and the proper health and safety regulations brought in then it can be properly regulated. I did contact the Turn off the Blue Light Campaign before (http://www.turnoffthebluelight.ie/ ) for more information and they were backed by a few academics. My mail bounced back but if they are out there I would be interested in reading more. This point of view of being able to legalise prostitution is not the preserve of bloody hearted liberals but those with the interests of the women at heart. If the anti legalisation lobby had the interests of the women at heart they would throw their weight behind a campaign to legalise it as any opposition to the legalise prostitution means that its going to be driven underground and therefore women are going to maltreated .

[fluffybiscuits]

http://www.thejournal.ie/ruhama-repo...67797-Aug2012/

Ruhama released their annual report. The journal gives a basic outline ...

[Richardbouvet]

I think that people on this thread are continuing to forget that Ruhama know what they are talking about; we on this thread do not.

There have been unsubstantiated charges on this thread of a far-right agenda.There has also been a grossly unfair assumption that because Ruhama were founded by Religious, then their objective must be the enforcement of Catholic morality.

There seems to be an implicit preference on this (largely male) thread for retaining the situation where men are able to have their anonymity and "reputation" kept intact. That is the basis on which the whole edifice of Victorian hypocrisy rested. Ruhama want that removed. Give them some credit.

[BARNEYKX]

It has often been described as the oldest trade in the world ,so i doubt if it will ever end no matter what laws are brought in, but i am sure they can do something to stop the trafficking of women for this purpose only

[bernadette]

While all right-minded people abhor women being trafficked or indeed people-trafficking of any kind, the aim of Turn Off the Red Light to end prostitution in Ireland is naive and futile.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...x-3202477.html

The spurious contention that men who pay for sex are automatically criminals presupposes a lack of consent on the part of the woman which is ludicrous. Many women who act as prostitutes consent to sex for money. To say otherwise is fatuousness in the extreme.

I am all in favour of regulating this industry to make it safer, both from a general health perspective and for the safety of sex workers.

As always in Ireland, when we need to look at Europe, we only see Britain. We ape the legal approach the UK takes and we get no progress on the issue. Laws in continental Europe relating to the health and safety of sex workers are light years ahead of the nonsense the obtains in Ireland and the UK.

Sad really, because the (mostly) women in this area of work are not getting the laws they need.

Completely agree with this but it would need strict regulation to ensure girls/women/boys were not trafficked or coerced into prostitution. The objection is largely a christian/religious one and, again, goes back to control over people and what constituted the shape and type of a family.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I think that people on this thread are continuing to forget that Ruhama know what they are talking about; we on this thread do not.

There have been unsubstantiated charges on this thread of a far-right agenda.There has also been a grossly unfair assumption that because Ruhama were founded by Religious, then their objective must be the enforcement of Catholic morality.

There seems to be an implicit preference on this (largely male) thread for retaining the situation where men are able to have their anonymity and "reputation" kept intact. That is the basis on which the whole edifice of Victorian hypocrisy rested. Ruhama want that removed. Give them some credit.

Protecting males who go to prostitutes is not my concern in this. My concern is a certain amount of anger at the stupidity of driving prostitution underground where it is inherently more dangerous for those who do work in it.

How many times have we seen reports of prostitutes targeted by serial killers in the US, UK and so on because they are out there in the shadows and obvious targets for nutters?

The Yorkshire Ripper for one. The Bradford murders for another. Female prostitutes are meat in the water for psychotic sharks in the human population and as long as they are having to operate in dark streets that will continue.

If Ruhama wanted to protect prostitutes they would be lobbying for legalisation and regulation and getting prostitutes off the back streets.

Escorts and high-end hotel sex workers have protection around them- the girls and rent boys who work the streets have to live on their wits.They are subject to the 'nasty' trick at any given moment.

[bernadette]

Protecting males who go to prostitutes is not my concern in this. My concern is a certain amount of anger at the stupidity of driving prostitution underground where it is inherently more dangerous for those who do work in it.

How many times have we seen reports of prostitutes targeted by serial killers in the US, UK and so on because they are out there in the shadows and obvious targets for nutters?

The Yorkshire Ripper for one. The Bradford murders for another. Female prostitutes are meat in the water for psychotic sharks in the human population and as long as they are having to operate in dark streets that will continue.

If Ruhama wanted to protect prostitutes they would be lobbying for legalisation and regulation and getting prostitutes off the back streets.

Escorts and high-end hotel sex workers have protection around them- the girls and rent boys who work the streets have to live on their wits.They are subject to the 'nasty' trick at any given moment.

Completely agree with the above. You can't and probably shouldn't want to prevent prostitution, driven underground the way it is its easy to force women and boys into the degrading and violent end of the trade.

Ipswich in England was I think the latest example of a murderer on what was called a 'spree'. I think he murdered five prostitutes in almost as many days before he was caught. Dangerous people hide their sickness until they are alone with someone too weak to fight them.

Attempts by religious groups to end prostitution are inherently dishonest they don't deal with the problem and often their very existance depends on the illegal trade continuing.

[ZeroWedge]

http://www.thejournal.ie/ruhama-repo...67797-Aug2012/

Ruhama released their annual report. The journal gives a basic outline ...

Thanks for that link Fluffy.

The report shows Ruhama is a private company that doesnt pay many of its workers. Some of these so called volunteers, do not have irish names, leading me to conclude that Ruhama has trafficked these people into the country for labour exploitation, or they are people that were formerly prostitutes and are now being exploited by Ruhama.

It would be interesting to find out if Ruhama has encouraged or arranged for their unpaid volunteers to fraudulantly obtain social welfare. Anyone who has information on this, please post it here.

Their income and expenditure statement also shows that they have "Debtors" who owe them €17,748. How were these debts accrued? The report doesnt say. Do they charge prostitutes for their services? The report doesnt say. Theres a lot of things hidden on the report.

Ruhama lists their income as follows:
€225,000 from the Dep of Justice (ie the taxpayer)
€129,560 from the HSE (ie the taxpayer)
€50,636 from SICLDTF (ie the taxpayer)
€51,724 from SICLDTF Emerging Needs (ie the taxpayer)

SICLDTF is South Inner City Local Drugs Task Force.

The report shows Ruhama had annual expenses of €613,275. Ruhama are careful to hide what these expenses are. But obviously the use of the title "CEO" by the ringleader Sarah Benson, suggests she is extracting a six figure salary from the taxpayer funds. At the same time, Benson refuses to pay any wages to the women that Ruhama is exploiting as so-called volunteers.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Suspect it will be the South Inner City Local Drugs Task Force, ZW. This report by Goodbody (no awkward jokes please) for the period 1997-2005 available from the SICLDTF website says that SICLDTF was funded to the tune of 120million euro, apparently by the Dept for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht affairs if I'm reading this report right.

http://www.southinnercityldtf.ie/wp-...y-Report.1.pdf

So essentially Ruhama is being funded by the taxpayer all 'round.

[fluffybiscuits]

I think that people on this thread are continuing to forget that Ruhama know what they are talking about; we on this thread do not.

There have been unsubstantiated charges on this thread of a far-right agenda.There has also been a grossly unfair assumption that because Ruhama were founded by Religious, then their objective must be the enforcement of Catholic morality.

There seems to be an implicit preference on this (largely male) thread for retaining the situation where men are able to have their anonymity and "reputation" kept intact. That is the basis on which the whole edifice of Victorian hypocrisy rested. Ruhama want that removed. Give them some credit.

Do you remember what happened the last time we let a bunch of funny celibates with funny hats dictate social policy? Im speaking as someone who knows of people whom have used the services of prostitutes and whom have the welfare of people at heart. This is criminalising the behaviour of a consensual transaction (for want of better words between two people). Do you honestly think, that the Irish govt, as stupid as they are would allow people to be trafficked into brothels that would be government run? There is a cross section of society still disagreeing with this as they are suffering from the moral hangover of the RCC and by virtue of this are getting their knickers in a twist. Sex is a stress reliever, its a spiritual need, its a loving need, its a psychological need and sometimes its just nice to get a ride as and when we want one. This whole hung up about sex in Ireland attitude can be seen when people talk about 50 Shades of Grey in hushed tones. Ireland needs to get over itself, sex is sex and so much more and so little else....

[fluffybiscuits]

Suspect it will be the South Inner City Local Drugs Task Force, ZW. This report by Goodbody (no awkward jokes please) for the period 1997-2005 available from the SICLDTF website says that SICLDTF was funded to the tune of 120million euro, apparently by the Dept for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht affairs if I'm reading this report right.

http://www.southinnercityldtf.ie/wp-...y-Report.1.pdf

So essentially Ruhama is being funded by the taxpayer all 'round.

I object to my money being used for this, seriously gets on my wick..

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

'Ruhama is an Irish NGO which works with women affected by prostitution' is the way Ruhama begin to describe themselves on their Facebook page.

Well thats the rent boy completely ignored then. I suspect that because of the distaste of the holy for anything which smacks of homosexuality will have affected the though process behind that opening sentence.

Which is quare really when you consider that old chestnut now about the priests visiting a 'massage parlour' in Dublin back in the 70's and somewhat embarrassingly dying on the spot.

Rent boys do not exist for Ruhama?

[fluffybiscuits]

'Ruhama is an Irish NGO which works with women affected by prostitution' is the way Ruhama begin to describe themselves on their Facebook page.

Well thats the rent boy completely ignored then. I suspect that because of the distaste of the holy for anything which smacks of homosexuality will have affected the though process behind that opening sentence.

Which is quare really when you consider that old chestnut now about the priests visiting a 'massage parlour' in Dublin back in the 70's and somewhat embarrassingly dying on the spot.

Rent boys do not exist for Ruhama?

Think there was one more recent than that even in the late 90's! A priest died in a parlour !

[ZeroWedge]

In their report is the following photo


The poster in the background is of a naked woman in chains. I suspect they paid to have this pornographic image produced, out of taxpayers money. They have also used taxpayers money to produce pictures of a naked woman with a barcode over her fanny.

Ruhama the pornographers, need to be shut off from taxpayers money.
Ruhama the exploiters of unpaid labour ,need to be shut off from taxpayers money.
Ruhama the arm of the vatican political operations, need to be shut off from taxpayers money.