The 10 o' clock off licence closure is ridiculous, extend past 10

[Slim Buddha]

C'mere, 9-to-5 workers are getting increasingly rare. Factories have shifts going 24 hours, there's traditional jobs like printers and bakers etc who work nights and finish early, night-shift hospital staff, security, people who work remotely for companies based overseas whose working day is based on 9-5 in another timezone, the self-employed who make their own hours...

Basing social policy and legislation on making sure the children all turn up at 9am is ridiculously backward in a 21st century 24-hour global economy. But as the gombeen ruling class would say "Ah sure aren't we a small island". Backward medieval peasants!

I could drink 24 hours here if I really wanted to. But nobody does. Remove the artificial "closing time" deadline and people simply wander in to the bar for a quiet pint when it suits them then go home when it suits them. You don't have hordes of pissed people all thrown out onto the street at once puking and fighting. There's not the "naughty children that need to be controlled" reactionary nonsense, which just makes people subconsciously defensive/rebellious/aggressive to start with.

Irish licensing laws are just head-slappingly stupid.

Stupid, yes, in 2012. The core thinking governing Irish licencing laws can be found in a British Act of Parliament dating back to 1915. The centenary is coming up soon!

[fluffybiscuits]

C'mere, 9-to-5 workers are getting increasingly rare. Factories have shifts going 24 hours, there's traditional jobs like printers and bakers etc who work nights and finish early, night-shift hospital staff, security, people who work remotely for companies based overseas whose working day is based on 9-5 in another timezone, the self-employed who make their own hours...

Basing social policy and legislation on making sure the children all turn up at 9am is ridiculously backward in a 21st century 24-hour global economy. But as the gombeen ruling class would say "Ah sure aren't we a small island". Backward medieval peasants!

I could drink 24 hours here if I really wanted to. But nobody does. Remove the artificial "closing time" deadline and people simply wander in to the bar for a quiet pint when it suits them then go home when it suits them. You don't have hordes of pissed people all thrown out onto the street at once puking and fighting. There's not the "naughty children that need to be controlled" reactionary nonsense, which just makes people subconsciously defensive/rebellious/aggressive to start with.

Irish licensing laws are just head-slappingly stupid.

As the world becomes more globalised it would be even more to say that people are working from home now even. When dealing with Asia or the US the timelines can be six or twelve hours either way and as such people will act accordingly. If you come into town in the morning times you can see the dockers drinking up in the Windjammer just off the quays and a few more early houses like wise, its a shame they are confined to just a few places.There is going to be one barrier though to late licensing and being able to go out late, the religious right that still exist in the small minority in some of the parties. It was bad enough they got rid of holy hour they are thinking but what happens next wil have them getting their knickets in a twist.

One point worth mentioning though is we do need a bit of a change in our alcohol culture though. Its a little concerning at times to see people puking on street corners at three in the morning.!

[toxic avenger]

One point worth mentioning though is we do need a bit of a change in our alcohol culture though. Its a little concerning at times to see people puking on street corners at three in the morning.!

How about a compromise - ban the sale of alcopops, vodka with anything fizzy, and pissy lager after 10pm in all pubs and off-licenses. That should keep the rat-faced twats away and allow people who actually like beer to keep drinking. Or else only allow pubs that sell nothing but real ale to stay open.

Real ale drinkers don't kick off or vomit in public.

[jpc]

It's the typical arsebackwards Paddywackery "logic" of the demented reactionary gombeen class that run Ireland. Don't be expecting logic or reason, foresight and planning, thinking things through, sustainable business models, protection of environment and heritage, social empathy and responsibility, or any consideration whatsoever for the greater welfare of the vast majority from those peasant mucksavages.

Kneejerk "ban everything" ultraconservatism, savage kick-the-poor anti-social vandalism, and rampant short-term trough-snouting, that's all those animals understand, or want to understand.

Ireland needs a purge.

No holding back there SW!
And exactly to the point.
It's all about being seen to something, reports from the blah,blah committee, Serious good intentioned types doing "initiatives"
And listening to vested interests.
I'm not going too cynical there am I?
Any way real initiatives like the drink driving crackdown take lots of time and effort.
And that doesn't seem on the agenda anymore.

[Sidewinder]

How about a compromise - ban the sale of alcopops, vodka with anything fizzy, and pissy lager after 10pm in all pubs and off-licenses. That should keep the rat-faced twats away and allow people who actually like beer to keep drinking. Or else only allow pubs that sell nothing but real ale to stay open.

Real ale drinkers don't kick off or vomit in public.

Or just do what civilised countries do. Here if a barman serves someone clearly intoxicated who then goes outside and pukes/pisses on the street, starts a fight, ends up in a gutter...well there's these people employed by the government, they call them "police" here, who patrol the main entertainment drags at night you see, and they put a stop to the nonsense and find out what the last bar he was in was....then the bar gets fined $20K and the barman who served him gets a personal $10K fine on top.

These "police" people also send in "secret shoppers" of people who look underage with no ID, or who are trained at acting blootered, to random bars every week, and hand out fines accordingly. Barstaff are expected to be trained in the law, and at least one member of staff on the premises at all times must have done the official course & exam for the duty manager certificate.

There is no trouble on the streets of Wellington city centre. I can stroll along Courtenay or Cuba at 3am on a major festival weekend and the streets will be packed with people enjoying themselves and having fun, with hardly anybody who is totally wasted, very few pools of puke and piss, and absolutely no sense of menace and underlying violence from hordes of rat-faced skangers.

The simple application and enforcement of the rule of impartial law, personal responsibility, and treating adult citizens as...ummm, adults. I realise these concepts are beyond the ken of most Irish people though.

[Slim Buddha]

Or just do what civilised countries do. Here if a barman serves someone clearly intoxicated who then goes outside and pukes/pisses on the street, starts a fight, ends up in a gutter...well there's these people employed by the government, they call them "police" here, who patrol the main entertainment drags at night you see, and they put a stop to the nonsense and find out what the last bar he was in was....then the bar gets fined $20K and the barman who served him gets a personal $10K fine on top.

These "police" people also send in "secret shoppers" of people who look underage with no ID, or who are trained at acting blootered, to random bars every week, and hand out fines accordingly. Barstaff are expected to be trained in the law, and at least one member of staff on the premises at all times must have done the official course & exam for the duty manager certificate.

There is no trouble on the streets of Wellington city centre. I can stroll along Courtenay or Cuba at 3am on a major festival weekend and the streets will be packed with people enjoying themselves and having fun, with hardly anybody who is totally wasted, very few pools of puke and piss, and absolutely no sense of menace and underlying violence from hordes of rat-faced skangers.

The simple application and enforcement of the rule of impartial law, personal responsibility, and treating adult citizens as...ummm, adults. I realise these concepts are beyond the ken of most Irish people though.

You mean, evaluate a serious problem, formulate a measured response to it, enshrine this in a law, and then enforce that law???

Now THAT is radical!!!

[fluffybiscuits]

Or just do what civilised countries do. Here if a barman serves someone clearly intoxicated who then goes outside and pukes/pisses on the street, starts a fight, ends up in a gutter...well there's these people employed by the government, they call them "police" here, who patrol the main entertainment drags at night you see, and they put a stop to the nonsense and find out what the last bar he was in was....then the bar gets fined $20K and the barman who served him gets a personal $10K fine on top.

These "police" people also send in "secret shoppers" of people who look underage with no ID, or who are trained at acting blootered, to random bars every week, and hand out fines accordingly. Barstaff are expected to be trained in the law, and at least one member of staff on the premises at all times must have done the official course & exam for the duty manager certificate.

There is no trouble on the streets of Wellington city centre. I can stroll along Courtenay or Cuba at 3am on a major festival weekend and the streets will be packed with people enjoying themselves and having fun, with hardly anybody who is totally wasted, very few pools of puke and piss, and absolutely no sense of menace and underlying violence from hordes of rat-faced skangers.

The simple application and enforcement of the rule of impartial law, personal responsibility, and treating adult citizens as...ummm, adults. I realise these concepts are beyond the ken of most Irish people though.

The ideas are somewhat radical and make a whole lot of sense and would make some sense here. Set up a seperate task force for the police and get them to patrol town on a Saturday night, the pubs have to take some of the responsibility for people getting completely blotto. The other idea is to stick a drunk tank as the song goes, in a hospital where people who are drunk can sleep off their drunkness and then charge them the following morning for a nights stay

[Maximus]

Many years ago I was out all night in Dublin, eventually ending up in an early house somewhere in Smithfield. There were a load of dockers, shift-workers, and an old man with a cloth cap and a dog, all sitting around watching the Exorcist. At 7.30am. Weirdest drinks I ever had......

There's another early house at Tara Street. Ned's. They open at 7 AM. Only time I ever drank between 6 AM-12 PM was for my leaving cert and that was 30 years ago.

[DCon]

Or just do what civilised countries do. Here if a barman serves someone clearly intoxicated who then goes outside and pukes/pisses on the street, starts a fight, ends up in a gutter...well there's these people employed by the government, they call them "police" here, who patrol the main entertainment drags at night you see, and they put a stop to the nonsense and find out what the last bar he was in was....then the bar gets fined $20K and the barman who served him gets a personal $10K fine on top.

These "police" people also send in "secret shoppers" of people who look underage with no ID, or who are trained at acting blootered, to random bars every week, and hand out fines accordingly. Barstaff are expected to be trained in the law, and at least one member of staff on the premises at all times must have done the official course & exam for the duty manager certificate.

There is no trouble on the streets of Wellington city centre. I can stroll along Courtenay or Cuba at 3am on a major festival weekend and the streets will be packed with people enjoying themselves and having fun, with hardly anybody who is totally wasted, very few pools of puke and piss, and absolutely no sense of menace and underlying violence from hordes of rat-faced skangers.

The simple application and enforcement of the rule of impartial law, personal responsibility, and treating adult citizens as...ummm, adults. I realise these concepts are beyond the ken of most Irish people though.

You want Police in Ireland to actually police, and enforce the law? Come on! Will never happen..

[Sidewinder]

The ideas are somewhat radical

Except of course they really aren't in any way radical at all, not really, not in any part of the civilised world outside Ireland.

Ireland is totally, deeply, completely dysfunctional on every level. And people are used to it, the arsebackward illogical subjective unfair and corrupt nature of every single decision, every law, every institution and organisation, every public official.

It's just not like that elsewhere in the world bar corrupt Latin Armerican, Central Asian and African gangster states - in all honesty Ireland simply doesn't deserve to be included as a developed first world country. It just isn't, its institutions and laws and procedures are backward, corrupt, exploitative.

And until Paddy starts to get his head around the concept of the impartial rule of law, enforced equally for all citizens regardless of wealth, family name or political connections, Ireland will never be fit for purpose and none of the other myriad problems can ever be tackled.

To my mind, the fact that merely suggesting a simple impartial law be fairly and impartially enforced is seen as radical crazy talk in Ireland just sums up why I could never live in that country ever again.

[jpc]

The ideas are somewhat radical and make a whole lot of sense and would make some sense here. Set up a seperate task force for the police and get them to patrol town on a Saturday night, the pubs have to take some of the responsibility for people getting completely blotto. The other idea is to stick a drunk tank as the song goes, in a hospital where people who are drunk can sleep off their drunkness and then charge them the following morning for a nights stay

And as the drunk tank is a "service" that has to be supervised by trained professionals charge them enough for it so they won't want to use it too often.

[fluffybiscuits]

And as the drunk tank is a "service" that has to be supervised by trained professionals charge them enough for it so they won't want to use it too often.

It would require perhaps getting the money off them before hand?

Except of course they really aren't in any way radical at all, not really, not in any part of the civilised world outside Ireland.

Ireland is totally, deeply, completely dysfunctional on every level. And people are used to it, the arsebackward illogical subjective unfair and corrupt nature of every single decision, every law, every institution and organisation, every public official.

It's just not like that elsewhere in the world bar corrupt Latin Armerican, Central Asian and African gangster states - in all honesty Ireland simply doesn't deserve to be included as a developed first world country. It just isn't, its institutions and laws and procedures are backward, corrupt, exploitative.

And until Paddy starts to get his head around the concept of the impartial rule of law, enforced equally for all citizens regardless of wealth, family name or political connections, Ireland will never be fit for purpose and none of the other myriad problems can ever be tackled.

To my mind, the fact that merely suggesting a simple impartial law be fairly and impartially enforced is seen as radical crazy talk in Ireland just sums up why I could never live in that country ever again.

Well to a lot of people it would be. A lot of people would turn around and say that such ideas are of course "not going to work" or "infringing on their right to have a few drinks" or some other cop out. Force the establishments to throw money into it , Im sure the VFI wouldnt mind, after all its encouraging people to go out and drink responsibly (warning activate sarcasm detector)

[Slim Buddha]

It would require perhaps getting the money off them before hand?




Well to a lot of people it would be. A lot of people would turn around and say that such ideas are of course "not going to work" or "infringing on their right to have a few drinks" or some other cop out. Force the establishments to throw money into it , Im sure the VFI wouldnt mind, after all its encouraging people to go out and drink responsibly (warning activate sarcasm detector)

Fluffy, the fact is that Sidey is right here. We have a ludicrous attitude in Ireland to opening/closing time based on a piece of legislation passed in 1915 by a British government, which the Brits themselves have largely done away with.

It is a classic case of reactive government. Irish governments always "react". Never proactive. Never anticipating anything and planning accordingly. Never looking ahead and saying to themselves "Maybe a law passed in 1915 has passed its sell by date. Let's get something more appropriate to 2012 in place".

It is government by crisis management. We get to the stage where the problem is out of control. It is debated by representatives of conflicting interests (the "debate" is a lot of static on the radio punctuated by interruptions from Marion Finucane) and after all that the government comes up with the wrong response.

We need radical. We get rubbish

[fluffybiscuits]

Fluffy, the fact is that Sidey is right here. We have a ludicrous attitude in Ireland to opening/closing time based on a piece of legislation passed in 1915 by a British government, which the Brits themselves have largely done away with.

It is a classic case of reactive government. Irish governments always "react". Never proactive. Never anticipating anything and planning accordingly. Never looking ahead and saying to themselves "Maybe a law passed in 1915 has passed its sell by date. Let's get something more appropriate to 2012 in place".

It is government by crisis management. We get to the stage where the problem is out of control. It is debated by representatives of conflicting interests (the "debate" is a lot of static on the radio punctuated by interruptions from Marion Finucane) and after all that the government comes up with the wrong response.

We need radical. We get rubbish

Oh I agree with Sidey its just when I read over what I wrote in my head it sounds right and then when someone else reads it , it looks like Im only half agreeing or something like that! That nanny state mentality has also crepy into the government , telling us when we can and cannot drink what about following the German model where people can drink on the streets and its not seen as being some sort of ludicrous illegal activity. People get drunk in Berlin but no one minds and there isnt that much argy bargy as we see on the streets here when we swim among the puke in Temple Bar. Proactively managing our drinking culture would be a huge step for the government but no one has the balls to do it. The publicans all have a huge say as well as the drinks industry in politics here and Roisin Shortall trying to justify her pay packet with mickey mouse measures does nothing to address the issues at all.

[Slim Buddha]

Oh I agree with Sidey its just when I read over what I wrote in my head it sounds right and then when someone else reads it , it looks like Im only half agreeing or something like that! That nanny state mentality has also crepy into the government , telling us when we can and cannot drink what about following the German model where people can drink on the streets and its not seen as being some sort of ludicrous illegal activity. People get drunk in Berlin but no one minds and there isnt that much argy bargy as we see on the streets here when we swim among the puke in Temple Bar. Proactively managing our drinking culture would be a huge step for the government but no one has the balls to do it. The publicans all have a huge say as well as the drinks industry in politics here and Roisin Shortall trying to justify her pay packet with mickey mouse measures does nothing to address the issues at all.

Lived there for eight years, and there was no closing time at all!!!