Ireland in "Top Ten" Countries for Atheisim - Less than 50% say they are "religious" - Red C Poll

[C. Flower]

Ireland's adherence to religion seems to have been severely shaken since 2005. Is it the failure of the Church to respond in a proper way to the harm done to people by the clergy, or is it perhaps in part the effects of the economic collapse?

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/up...sm-25-7-12.pdf

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-3194317.html

Some interesting facts -

August 7th, 2012
Irish citizens are far less likely to claim that they are religious, according to the latest global poll released by WIN-Gallup International, a world-wide network of leading opinion pollsters represented in Ireland by RED C.
Ireland now rates themselves as one of the least religious countries in the poll. 59% of the world said that they think of themselves as religious person, 23% think of themselves as not religious whereas 13% think of themselves as convinced atheists.
However, when we compare this to the Irish population, only 47% consider themselves religious, placing Ireland low on the index of being religious coming in at position 43 out of 57 countries.
The question was last asked in Ireland in 2005, when 69% consideredthemselves religious. As such, there has been a significant decline of 22% who no longer feel they are religious.

Irish people are abandoning religion faster than almost every other country worldwide, the massive global survey on faith reveals.Only Vietnam has seen a bigger drop in people declaring themselves to be religious over the past seven years, a period when the Catholic Church in Ireland has been rocked by sex-abuse scandals and a crisis of leadership.


Red C interviewed more than 51,000 people worldwide, including just over 1,000 people in Ireland.
An overwhelming 69pc of Irish people declared themselves to be "a religious person" in the last survey conducted in 2005, but this has now plummeted to 47pc.

A survey in February by market research group Amarach found the public at odds with the church hierarchy on a range of issues, including women clergy and married priests.
That survey, which questioned more than 1,000 Irish Catholics, found that 77pc believed women should be ordained.
Nine out of 10 said priests should be able to marry. It also revealed just 35pc went to church on a weekly basis.

Very interesting too that there has been a 9% drop in religiosity globally, according to this study.

The rich were found to be 17% less religious than the poor - perhaps because a lack of scruples is helpful to acquisition of wealth ?

[Sidewinder]

The rich were found to be 17% less religious than the poor - perhaps because a lack of scruples is helpful to acquisition of wealth ?

Well, among the sociopath element of the rich, maybe.

There's also the simple fact that rich people tend to be much better educated especially in less-developed countries.....and most importantly, being rich, they have no need for the comfort of slave religions like Christianity which lets face it boils down to a comfort blanket for the poor and oppressed that by being good slaves, keeping the head down and accepting their lot in life they will receive vague rewards after they are dead.

I note from the full PDF that a lot of countries weren't surveyed. For example in the 2006 census 35% of Kiwis described themselves as "Not Religious" but RedC didn't bother surveying here for this one.

[Ogiol]

I would be a bit sceptical of that figure. there has certainly been a huge decline in practicing catholics in the country recently (20/30 years) but for there to be more than 50% openly declared atheists I dont think so.

I do certainly see the disagreement with the hierarchy (such a gr8 word) , everyone hates the baxtards (but still bless themselves while passing a church)..

Interesting one

[Holly]

I heard a Dublin based priest saying this means nothing because it all depends on what you mean by "religious".

[C. Flower]

I would be a bit sceptical of that figure. there has certainly been a huge decline in practicing catholics in the country recently (20/30 years) but for there to be more than 50% openly declared atheists I dont think so.

I do certainly see the disagreement with the hierarchy (such a gr8 word) , everyone hates the baxtards (but still bless themselves while passing a church)..

Interesting one

That is not what was said - 10% said they were atheists.

The question was, whether or not you go to a place of worship, do you consider yourself to be religious.

I don't think it's a well framed question, but it is useful for the purpose of comparison with the previous poll a few years ago, and with other countries asked the same question.

[Ogiol]

Point taken, but atheist is such a dirty word in ireland. Calling yourself not religious is just an easy way out to say basically the same thing! And yes, it is a badly framed question

[C. Flower]

Point taken, but atheist is such a dirty word in ireland. Calling yourself not religious is just an easy way out to say basically the same thing! And yes, it is a badly framed question

Yes. Looked at another way, though, you could read it as saying 90% believe if God.

[Sidewinder]

The rich were found to be 17% less religious than the poor - perhaps because a lack of scruples is helpful to acquisition of wealth ?

Another point on this: I personally find it extremely irritating when people assume that religion is necessary for ethics and that atheists somehow cannot have any ethical/moral code.

Ethics without religion has been around for about 2500 years at least yet the religious keep using that line. It's very subtle propaganda and nothing more.

And another thing!

Some religious people use the argument that without religion there are no morals in what, to me, is a very darkly disturbing way. They way some religious people frame that argument suggests to me that these people are borderline psychopath, and religion is, for them, really a form of self-medication to keep themselves under control. Without the threat of hellfire and the rules and structures of their faith, they suggest, there'd be nothing to stop them going on a Natural Born Killers rampage. They then project their own problems onto others and suggest that all athesits are just about to haul off and go postal at any minute.

The whole area is just bonkers really. Long past time we as a species got past these primitive systems of social conditioning and control.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

We at some point are going to be faced with the necessity of developing systems of ethical behaviour that do not depend on the whims of a beardy cloud-man as interpreted by some salaried priests.

Responsibility rears its head?

[fluffybiscuits]

I would be a bit sceptical of that figure. there has certainly been a huge decline in practicing catholics in the country recently (20/30 years) but for there to be more than 50% openly declared atheists I dont think so.

I do certainly see the disagreement with the hierarchy (such a gr8 word) , everyone hates the baxtards (but still bless themselves while passing a church)..

Interesting one

These would perhaps be agnostics which a lot of Irish people would not be aware of . Incidentally this is the week eight years ago when i finally became convinced that I was an athiest. I had testicular cancer and that just finally made me realise there is no god so I can be as hedonistic as I like Plus that and I blessed by left bollock with Padre Pios glove which someone had acquired for me. I had to stifle a laugh blessing my testicle with a superstitious relic.

[fluffybiscuits]

Well, among the sociopath element of the rich, maybe.

There's also the simple fact that rich people tend to be much better educated especially in less-developed countries.....and most importantly, being rich, they have no need for the comfort of slave religions like Christianity which lets face it boils down to a comfort blanket for the poor and oppressed that by being good slaves, keeping the head down and accepting their lot in life they will receive vague rewards after they are dead.

I note from the full PDF that a lot of countries weren't surveyed. For example in the 2006 census 35% of Kiwis described themselves as "Not Religious" but RedC didn't bother surveying here for this one.

Education = enlightenment

+1

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I detect some signs particularly in the United States that those who run that country have had enough of using religion as an opiate and have finally realised the danger and paradox in condeming taliban-like societies and allowing the same to flourish at home.

The most interesting piece of symbolic communication I have seen in the United States in many a year was that quiet announcement that Obama had asked for the Lincoln Bible to be used at his inauguration.

Symbols within symbols and quite machiavellian in a way. Lincoln was an atheist and only students of Lincoln and those who had read their Vidal would know it. So on the surface was this gesture which looked like a sop to the patriotic religious but to those who like their symbology there was something else underneath.

I wondered whether this was a signal. A cultural statement. And dismissed it as reading too much into symbols at the time.

Since then though the Obama administration has achieved one interesting political maneouver in this area- the neat piece of political judo on the opposition to the obligation to provide contraception advice in health care legislation. That began to look awfully like a piece of Trojan horse politics when the Bishops all got up on their hind legs and their congregations responded with a distinct 'meh'.

Clear blue political water all of a sudden between the fundamentalists and their flock. I may be crediting the Obama advisors with too much machiavellianism but if it is all accidental then it still points to a step back towards rationalism and away from taliban politics. If it was deliberate and there is reason to think it was- then there is something intelligent afoot in the USA.

[5intheface]

Another point on this: I personally find it extremely irritating when people assume that religion is necessary for ethics and that atheists somehow cannot have any ethical/moral code.

Ethics without religion has been around for about 2500 years at least yet the religious keep using that line. It's very subtle propaganda and nothing more.

And another thing!

Some religious people use the argument that without religion there are no morals in what, to me, is a very darkly disturbing way. They way some religious people frame that argument suggests to me that these people are borderline psychopath, and religion is, for them, really a form of self-medication to keep themselves under control. Without the threat of hellfire and the rules and structures of their faith, they suggest, there'd be nothing to stop them going on a Natural Born Killers rampage. They then project their own problems onto others and suggest that all athesits are just about to haul off and go postal at any minute.

The whole area is just bonkers really. Long past time we as a species got past these primitive systems of social conditioning and control.

Had that very conversation several times. Usually end the conversation by asking if their faith is the only thing which is stopping them from a rape, murder, pillage spree and then feigning a shocked eyebrow thing.

[Monetpenny]

Atheism & non-religious is not the same thing.
There are atheist religions.
Examples include Jainism, Taoism, and Confucianism & there are examples of atheism in Buddhism & Hinduism.
Also for all intents & purposes Communism is a religion.
I have never heard anyone adequately explain the difference between Communism & a religion. Usually theists will claim that Communism cannot be a religion as they are atheist.
For some reason deists (particularly those of the christian persuasion) believe that if you are religious then you must believe in a god.
This is the height of ignorance & shows an extreme lack of understanding of superstitious observance outside the christian cult.
I don’t believe in any god of any description but I am also non-religious.
Therefore I’m a non-religious atheist.
This is a very badly worded question but I would aver that the majority of respondents do not know there is a difference between atheism & non-religious.

I think it is too sweeping a statement to say that the child abuse & subsequent & ongoing cover-up is to blame.
There is a lot more to it than that.
People believed because they were taught these stories in school.
I had christian myth & folklore taught to me until I was 17 & I believed it.
We were taught that England was to the East, Turin was in Italy, Jesus preached in the holy land & God was in heaven.
With further education & experience I know that England is still to the east, Turin is still in Italy, Jesus never existed in the first place & there is no rational reason to suspect that any god resides in any heavenly paradise.

The greatest enemy to religion is education.
Religion was a way to explain what was not known about the world – example why are fossils of seashells half way up a mountain? Answer - It was a biblical flood.
Instead of admitting that they didn’t know elders told fibs & these lies became the religions widely observed to this day. As we now know the truth of these previously unexplained phenomena the religious lore & tradition in its entirety is exposed for the rustic superstitious nonsense that it is.

[Monetpenny]

Atheism & non-religious is not the same thing.
There are atheist religions.
Examples include Jainism, Taoism, and Confucianism & there are examples of atheism in Buddhism & Hinduism.
Also for all intents & purposes Communism is a religion.
I have never heard anyone adequately explain the difference between Communism & a religion. Usually theists will claim that Communism cannot be a religion as they are atheist.
For some reason deists (particularly those of the christian persuasion) believe that if you are religious then you must believe in a god.
This is the height of ignorance & shows an extreme lack of understanding of superstitious observance outside the christian cult.
I don’t believe in any god of any description but I am also non-religious.
Therefore I’m a non-religious atheist.
This is a very badly worded question but I would aver that the majority of respondents do not know there is a difference between atheism & non-religious.

I think it is too sweeping a statement to say that the child abuse & subsequent & ongoing cover-up is to blame.
There is a lot more to it than that.
People believed because they were taught these stories in school.
I had christian myth & folklore taught to me until I was 17 & I believed it.
We were taught that England was to the East, Turin was in Italy, Jesus preached in the holy land & God was in heaven.
With further education & experience I know that England is still to the east, Turin is still in Italy, Jesus never existed in the first place & there is no rational reason to suspect that any god resides in any heavenly paradise.

The greatest enemy to religion is education.
Religion was a way to explain what was not known about the world – example why are fossils of seashells half way up a mountain? Answer - It was a biblical flood.
Instead of admitting that they didn’t know elders told fibs & these lies became the religions widely observed to this day. As we now know the truth of these previously unexplained phenomena the religious lore & tradition in its entirety is exposed for the rustic superstitious nonsense that it is.