Red C poll - Update - Labour Shifts Even Further To the Right

[Griska]

I was wondering, and then I read that Cedarlounge is also wondering why FG voters wouldn't just vote for FG.

This seems like a half-arsed idea to me.
A party that knows they're destined to crumble next time.

It's like the Lib Dems batting their lashes at Labour in Britain.
Too little too late.

[homer]

I don't believe parties can go changing their electoral bases around as suggested.

I realise that the Dublin middle-class South of Liffey vote is very volatile - but DG they are not the entire country - they just think they should run it,

Labour should not yield up their "working class" vote to SF - otherwise they will go the way of the SDLP.

[C. Flower]

I was wondering, and then I read that Cedarlounge is also wondering why FG voters wouldn't just vote for FG.

This seems like a half-arsed idea to me.
A party that knows they're destined to crumble next time.

It's like the Lib Dems batting their lashes at Labour in Britain.
Too little too late.

It's an announcement to the world that they will not be pandering to the working class vote with any notions of fairness and equality, in the budget.

[Greengoddess]

I don't believe parties can go changing their electoral bases around as suggested.

I realise that the Dublin middle-class South of Liffey vote is very volatile - but DG they are not the entire country - they just think they should run it,

Labour should not yield up their "working class" vote to SF - otherwise they will go the way of the SDLP.

We were told by red c that the loss of the working class vote was irretreivable, that SF would peak at 25%. Ergo votes had to be somehow got from FG voters . The kind that occupies a space described by a journalist, ( citing Cuffe and Ryan) as " Garrets lost children".
I am not at all sure that abandoning this vote is a good thing. But which of us represent them credibly? Would I, for instance, the ultimate wild salmon socialist? In an ideal world that shouldnt matter. Probably we are heading down the Third Way. Better stop before my musings get me in even more trouble!

[Shaadi]

We were told by red c that the loss of the working class vote was irretreivable, that SF would peak at 25%. Ergo votes had to be somehow got from FG voters . The kind that occupies a space described by a journalist, ( citing Cuffe and Ryan) as " Garrets lost children".
I am not at all sure that abandoning this vote is a good thing. But which of us represent them credibly? Would I, for instance, the ultimate wild salmon socialist? In an ideal world that shouldnt matter. Probably we are heading down the Third Way. Better stop before my musings get me in even more trouble!

Wouldn't you represent the Social Democratic, pro-green, pro-Europe chattering classes agenda of Labour, minus the ruthless anti-welfare pro-cronyism and Croke Park servicing agenda of the right wing of Labour? No offence intended, you'd be much more honest and also much more sympathetic to the disadvantaged in society than Labour itself is, but where else could you now find a party with your agenda since the greens demise.

[riposte]

We were told by red c that the loss of the working class vote was irretreivable, that SF would peak at 25%. Ergo votes had to be somehow got from FG voters . The kind that occupies a space described by a journalist, ( citing Cuffe and Ryan) as " Garrets lost children".
I am not at all sure that abandoning this vote is a good thing. But which of us represent them credibly? Would I, for instance, the ultimate wild salmon socialist? In an ideal world that shouldnt matter. Probably we are heading down the Third Way. Better stop before my musings get me in even more trouble!

Greengoddess ....... the reality is Labour has nothing left but the croke Park agreement ...... you can rely 100% on those in the Public Service because Fine Gael are suspect on it ...... that means you can rely of 300,000 votes. You can forget the rest.

[Greengoddess]

Wouldn't you represent the Social Democratic, pro-green, pro-Europe chattering classes agenda of Labour, minus the ruthless anti-welfare pro-cronyism and Croke Park servicing agenda of the right wing of Labour? No offence intended, you'd be much more honest and also much more sympathetic to the disadvantaged in society than Labour itself is, but where else could you now find a party with your agenda since the greens demise.

Im not LOOKING for one. Despite hysteria about breakaways. The response to which suggests the use of major defense mechanisms, BTW. Your anslysis is spot on though. I am in favour of the CPA though for the time being. There is scapegoating going on which nearly amount to incitement to hatred.

[Greengoddess]

Greengoddess ....... the reality is Labour has nothing left but the croke Park agreement ...... you can rely 100% on those in the Public Service because Fine Gael are suspect on it ...... that means you can rely of 300,000 votes. You can forget the rest.

Great thing to wake up to.....

[jmcc]

Well there is one way to keep Labour together and deal with the problem in management - quarter ministerial pensions after a particular date (sometime next week).

Second thoughts, decimate them. These people are not worth it.

Regards...jmcc

[Shaadi]

Im not LOOKING for one. Despite hysteria about breakaways. The response to which suggests the use of major defense mechanisms, BTW. Your anslysis is spot on though. I am in favour of the CPA though for the time being. There is scapegoating going on which nearly amount to incitement to hatred.

The idea of protecting relatively low paid PS workers incomes in return for change in work practices doesn't offend tbe public. What is offensive to the public is that the very highly paid in the PS are protected by the same agreement and that's where Labour come into it. They're seen to be willing to throw any other sector under the bus to continue cosseting the upper echelons of the PS. Far from being left-wing, which should mean being radical and caring in forging a more equal society, they're in fact pursuing a policy of protecting the officer class and their own cronies at all costs during a period when the grunts are being lined up for the mincer.

[Apjp]

Another sob story here from the IT http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...ia=rel?via=rel regretting our sovereign right to vote on whether or not to cede sovereignty. He bemoans that 'the democratically elected govt.'(leaving aside the democratic farce that are our elections) cannot cede sovereignty without the 'need' to go to the people. Basically saying less democracy and less sovereignty means more freedom. Another govt. inspired piece no doubt.

[Greengoddess]

Another sob story here from the IT http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...ia=rel?via=rel regretting our sovereign right to vote on whether or not to cede sovereignty. He bemoans that 'the democratically elected govt.'(leaving aside the democratic farce that are our elections) cannot cede sovereignty without the 'need' to go to the people. Basically saying less democracy and less sovereignty means more freedom. Another govt. inspired piece no doubt.

Another thread for this?

[Apjp]

you go ahead. i have to run gg

[C. Flower]

A fascinating insight into the Labour strategy that throws up lots of interesting questions about the future shape of Irish politics.

Labour have decided to become Ireland's Liberal party, seeking to canabilise the neglected Social Democratic wing of their coalition partners in FG. For LAB to take that SD wing of FG will require a fight with their coalition partners on social issues. The state of the economy and the political battle required for a Croke Park successor will be likely to frustrate their efforts to pick that fight.


FG have decided to concentrate on the social and fiscal conservative vote, while enjoying watching LAB act as their mudguards and hoping to permanently damage Labour's chance of taking FGs number one spot in Irish politics.

What they're both forgetting is that both of their vote shares are dropping and likely to drop further. If FG drop below 30%, and LAB below 15%, then they'll have a very difficult job forming the next Govt. FF have a guaranteed 18%+ vote, SF 15% to 20% and Independents 20% or so. How are Labour going to avoid fourth place in the next GE if FG retain their Social Democrat wing and FF and SF each poll close to 20% in the next GE.

The coalition are too cocky by half, unless they pull a financial rabbit out of the hat the cutbacks and tax increases will trip them up. No amount of posturing on social issues will save Labour if the Govt don't get a really good deal on the PNs.

Bad call by Labour. The last thing someone disillusioned with FG will want to do is to move to their coalition partner.