College Students and LSD - An Overlooked Opportunity to Hack the Brain and Improve it?

[Sam Lord]

The Op is entirely riddled with the sort of fallacies and illusions that were put foward by the likes of Huxley and Leary. I astonished to discover that they still have some traction.

I would make a few points in this regard:

1. There is no God. There is no cosmic consciousness that one can break through to by affecting your mind with the use of drugs. This is an entirely idealist (in the philosophical sense).

2. There is no superior or perfect mind that our minds are evolving toward. Taking drugs will not provide any shortcut in this regard. To think so is again just plain idealism. Our brains are the products of hundreds of thousands of years of human evolution. They will no doubt continue to improve (if our species does not become extinct) as we advance and adapt to new circumstances ... but their is nothing that will project brains into some sort of advanced state.

3. Whatever about Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds ( which is a fairly trite pop melody albeit with good orchestration and production) there is no doubt that the greatest literature, music, and art produced by human civilisation has been done in the absence of drugs. Listening to Beethoven's 5th piano concerto while on LSD might be an amazing experience but there is no doubt that he could not have writtten it on LSD. Similarly I doubt that Joyce could have recreated the streets of Dublin while sitting in Italy if he was puffing away on hash every day. There is absolutely no evidence that drug use enhances creativity ... in fact, much evidence to the contrary. Personally, I have never know a writer, musician, or visual artist whose work was improved by drug use. But a good few whose work suffered greatly.

With regard to the chap who "hacked" his brain with amphetamine and this helped him learn a software program let me say that his brain was not enhanced in any way and he would have learned the same program without amphetamine although it may have taken him longer. There is nothing new is this. Students have been taking speed for decades to stay up all night and cram for exams when under pressure. Few of them, however, have been stupid enough to keep on taking speed which can lead to a most horrible addiction.

[Sam Lord]

While on the subject I would mention, as a complete aside, that I once read about an experiment in which spiders were given various drugs (obviously in microscopic quantities) ... LSD, marijuana, cocaine, speed, etc ... and then photographs were taken of the webs they spun. These accompanied the article.

All the webs were fcuked up to varying degress. But it was the drug which caused the most messed up one which suprised me. It obviously didn't agree with spiders.

[Baron von Biffo]

While on the subject I would mention, as a complete aside, that I once read about an experiment in which spiders were given various drugs (obviously in microscopic quantities) ... LSD, marijuana, cocaine, speed, etc ... and then photographs were taken of the webs they spun. These accompanied the article.

All the webs were fcuked up to varying degress. But it was the drug which caused the most messed up one which suprised me. It obviously didn't agree with spiders.

This the experiment?

http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm

[Kev Bar]

Lyrical and lovely just like it says on the box, except you don't know which way any trip will take you and you don't even know if its a return trip.

Its incredibly dangerous. I've seen some eejit running down the road waving his arms convinced he was flying. Lucky really there was a bit of a traffic jam or it would almost certainly have been his last flight anywhere. I've seen someone, not the same person, try to climb out of the window so he could fly, never mind it was the third floor.

I don't care how lovely or giggly one person gets I'm more concerned with those who never come home, not even when they're sitting in their kitchen..

I was giggling on fine marijuana.

I see eejits in their dozens running, falling, stumbling down Harcourt St yet there is never the same tone of almost tabloid terror in discussing their fate/state.
(Outrage, alarm yes but a cinematic almost sci fi type terror is introduced when it comes to drugs)

I've seen some eejit running down the road waving his arms convinced he was flying. Lucky really there was a bit of a traffic jam or it would almost certainly have been his last flight anywhere.

Just out of curiousity how do you know he was convinced he was flying?

Are you reading in or out?

In all my years, a few mis- as they say- spent I have never encountered anyone - or met anyone who has encountered anyone - who deemed they could fly when high.

I have met people who fell wasted in some way or another.

And I have seen quite a few do so

One who went out a window. Whacked on at least E and alcohol.
I could attribute a range of motives including suicide but I would be just speculating.

Despite the popularity of this juicy tale, I have never met anyone who thought they were an orange and peeled themselves to death. Eeek

Just as I have difficult with the OP because of its casual nature and false presumption I have equal unease with what seems like an alarmist view resting on pretty thin statistics.

I believe there have been rare occasions where a single acid trip caused lifelong damage.
Just as there have been deaths from people drinking a bottle of whiskey in one go.

I am, however, not equating the too in risk terms.

LSD is a more potent drug than distilled alcohol. And more dangerouis.

However, treated with the respect it requires, I would not see it as any more dangerous than an extreme sport and alternative attempt at flying like wind surfing/hand gliding.

[Sam Lord]

This the experiment?

http://www.trinity.edu/jdunn/spiderdrugs.htm

Yes. The caffine web is a disaster.

[Kev Bar]

Yes. The caffine web is a disaster.

I was going to mention caffeine, nicotine and alcohol before we started teasing Grusty Grand Pops with De Quincy, Burroughs, Thompson....yabba yabba yabba

While I might agree somewhat with what you say, your addiction to absolutism shoots holes in the credibility of your theory.

If you had only peddled a slightly cut version.

But no you had to go for your full bore pipes and slippers:

There is absolutely no evidence that drug use enhances creativity ... in fact, much evidence to the contrary. Personally, I have never know a writer, musician, or visual artist whose work was improved by drug use. But a good few whose work suffered greatly.

Perhaps your opt out is "personally".

The exact same drug that enhances creativity may latter kill it.

Was Steve Jobs not waxing on about the merits of acid in helping formulate his thinking/mind set.

Personallly I have known writers musicians, or visual artist whose work was aided, assisted or in some cases inspired by drug use.

Quite a few speak of the importance of sobriety checking, editing, polishing etc.

Others speak of drug taking and later writing.

Your point is almost flip side dumb to the OP.

[Sam Lord]

Well, lets leave the "known personally" out of it. Out of all the great musicians, writers, and visual artists the world has ever know how many could you name whose work was enhanced by drug use?

[Sam Lord]

Patti Smith agrees with me. Argument over.

“I’ve seen a lot of people go down because they attach a harmful substance to their creative process. A lot of it is purely habitual. They don’t need it, but they think they do, so it becomes entrenched.

[Kev Bar]

Well, lets leave the "known personally" out of it. Out of all the great musicians, writers, and visual artists the world has ever know how many could you name whose work was enhanced by drug use?

What can I take to do the research and by what means will we judge it to be diminished or enhanced thereby?

The kids tell me that those jazz hipsters were fierce men for the hard stuff.

McGowan was looking quite well for him the last time I met him.

There is a case of what I mentioned above where the same drugs which were a part of the life that was extremely creative now are a part of a life which is no way as near as creative.

It's possible they are even inhibiting his creativity.

http://alternativereel.com/music/dis...?id=0000000002

I would imagine smoking a joint may help you in the dour mundane task of working out did Shakespeare kill a king or just write about it.

It's fierce tricky business this fiction gig.

Almost drive you to drink.

[Kev Bar]

Patti Smith agrees with me. Argument over.

Ah but Sam you contradict yourself. Then quote to support contradiction. I hope you're on drugs and not going John Waters on us.

[jmcc]

With regard to the chap who "hacked" his brain with amphetamine and this helped him learn a software program let me say that his brain was not enhanced in any way and he would have learned the same program without amphetamine although it may have taken him longer.

I tend to be rather cynical when I read such claims. (The article is interesting but it is also a bit of a warning.) This is because operating at the higher levels of programming requires a kind of mind that few have and a level of concentration that is difficult to sustain (the famous "zone" in which everything works and makes sense - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_%28psychology%29 ).

Now "learning" a software package is a bit odd. Software packages are just tools and you have to understand how to use them efficiently. Merely learning the function of an icon on the tool bar is not "learning". There's a difference between "knowing" a software package and "learning" it that is often lost on non-programmers. I had to effectively learn a new computer language a few weeks ago. It took a few hours to understand the basics and to be able to program with that language. However I also have been programming in other languages for a long time so the concepts in the new language had their equivalents in languages that I already use. Now to a non-programmer (especially to Arts types who may wrongly equate learning a computer language with learning a natural language), learning a new language in a few hours (along with a few mugs of good coffee) sounds impressive. However I still have a way to go to "know" the computer language to such an extent that I can think in it. The 'new' skills, especially when it comes to something like programming (which the article was not), often may already there - it is just a case of figuring out how to use them efficiently. Sometimes a mug of good coffee helps.

Regards...jmcc

[Sam Lord]

Ah but Sam you contradict yourself.

The possibility always exists but it is highly unlikely, tbh.

Then quote to support contradiction. I hope you're on drugs and not going John Waters on us.

I frequently avail of three non-prescription drugs and have done so for most of my life. But I have never felt a compulsion to go around proclaiming that this was some great good (because it's not really), unlike those who use more trendy substances and wish the world to appreciate how cool they are.

[Kev Bar]

The possibility always exists but it is highly unlikely, tbh.



I frequently avail of three non-prescription drugs and have done so for most of my life. But I have never felt a compulsion to go around proclaiming that this was some great good (because it's not really), unlike those who use more trendy substances and wish the world to appreciate how cool they are.

Trendy substances conferring cool?

Come on Sam.

Dour yes...but surely not lacking in ... substance.

We've moved on a little from the 60s.

How the world sees things is a matter of complete indifference.

One appreciates the fun of fine things...wine, weed, coffee, food, opium and the odd rare little acidic square.

Sure why not invite me to Canada and we can drop some acid and perhaps we can get to understand what irks you.

But Sam I hate to tell you...drugs don't confer "cool" status.

But, Dude, I am reliably informed skateboards do.

[Sam Lord]

One appreciates the fun of fine things...wine, weed, coffee, food, opium and the odd rare little acidic square.

I can only direct you to the slogan on the placard in my avatar.

[Kev Bar]

I can only direct you to the slogan on the placard in my avatar.

And given yr outlook think I'll skip tripping with you.