Waste of Resources at Local and National Level

[goatstoe]

S what it comes down to is, you'll say that any spending by a government department is waste.

That's not what I said.

You know that you're just confirming suspicions that your complaints about waste are just an attempt to justify tax dodging?

I have outlined clearly that I'm in favour of a propery tax and that it should be paid but that it should be introduced properly in conjunction with tackling waste in the system.

If you don't agree with my view, fine. However don't pretend that you don't understand my point of view, and don't be deliberately misrepresenting my comments just because you disagree with them.

I have my suspicions about you as well.

[Baron von Biffo]

That's not what I said.


I have outlined clearly that I'm in favour of a propery tax and that it should be paid but that it should be introduced properly in conjunction with tackling waste in the system.

If you don't agree with my view, fine. However don't pretend that you don't understand my point of view, and don't be deliberately misrepresenting my comments just because you disagree with them.

You're claiming that the canteen equipment provided is an example of wasteful spending so it's fair to ask you why you believe that.

When you dodge a very reasonable question that goes to the heart of the case you're arguing then you shouldn't be surprised if others draw unfavourable inferences.

I have my suspicions about you as well.

[goatstoe]

You're claiming that the canteen equipment provided is an example of wasteful spending so it's fair to ask you why you believe that.

I'd say there are better value for money versions of coffee machines on the market than the one they bought for 6 grand.

When you dodge a very reasonable question that goes to the heart of the case you're arguing then you shouldn't be surprised if others draw unfavourable inferences.

I'm not dodging the question, I just don't pretend to have all the answers. Your unfavourable inference just makes you come across as cynicaI. I reckon a concerted effort should be made to enshrine value for the public's money in the culture of the public service.

Do they still operate for example with the premise that a particular department is allocated an annual budget, and that if they don't spend the budget within that year it doesn't roll over and they lose the money. This results in money being thrown at projects or spent on equipment towards the end of the budget cycle just to make sure that they've spent all the money that has been allocated, and that they get the same budget the next year. There has to be better ways of spending the public's money than that.

[Baron von Biffo]

I'd say there are better value for money versions of coffee machines on the market than the one they bought for 6 grand.

Buying the cheapest on the market isn't necessarily the most prudent option. Have you ever heard the old saying 'Buy cheap, buy twice'?

I'm not dodging the question, I just don't pretend to have all the answers. Your unfavourable inference just makes you come across as cynicaI. I reckon a concerted effort should be made to enshrine value for the public's money in the culture of the public service.

No-one is saying you should have all the answers. All I asked was how you determined that one specific thing was an example of waste. It was your own example so I wasn't being in any way unfair to you.

Do they still operate for example with the premise that a particular department is allocated an annual budget, and that if they don't spend the budget within that year it doesn't roll over and they lose the money. This results in money being thrown at projects or spent on equipment towards the end of the budget cycle just to make sure that they've spent all the money that has been allocated, and that they get the same budget the next year. There has to be better ways of spending the public's money than that.

Almost certainly. If anything it's probably getting worse. When organisations start to obsess about pennies they usually waste a fortune chasing them before someone calls a halt and reins in the accountants.

[goatstoe]

Buying the cheapest on the market isn't necessarily the most prudent option. Have you ever heard the old saying 'Buy cheap, buy twice'?

I didn't say that either. I hardly ever drink coffee, but when I do I only ever drink gourmet brands.

No-one is saying you should have all the answers. All I asked was how you determined that one specific thing was an example of waste. It was your own example so I wasn't being in any way unfair to you.

I don't know for definite but I'd imagine that you can get a good industrial purpose coffee machine for less than 6 grand. Did they shop around I wonder or was it a last minute purchase to use up an allocated budget?

Almost certainly. If anything it's probably getting worse. When organisations start to obsess about pennies they usually waste a fortune chasing them before someone calls a halt and reins in the accountants.

Well that's not the answer to the problem of departments wasting money towards the end of a budget cycle in order to maintain budget levels. They could try using their heads and coming up with a better system to provide funding where it's most needed, without fear of budgets being cut if they don't spend a budget within a given time period.

[goatstoe]

Almost certainly. If anything it's probably getting worse. When organisations start to obsess about pennies they usually waste a fortune chasing them before someone calls a halt and reins in the accountants.

I see you didn't properly address the issue I raised about the system where departments feel pressurised into spending allocated budgets, and wasting money on projects and equipment just to maintain budget levels for the following year.

Do you think that that budgetary system I outlined above is acceptable practise?

[Baron von Biffo]

I see you didn't properly address the issue I raised about the system where departments feel pressurised into spending allocated budgets, and wasting money on projects and equipment just to maintain budget levels for the following year.

Do you think that that budgetary system I outlined above is acceptable practise?

Using money at the end of the year rather than returning it to the general pot isn't of itself evidence of waste. The projects it's spent on may be very good but lacked priority when the budget was being allocated.

That said, there are inefficiencies in the way large organisations do their budgeting. My experience is in the private sector but it's probably pretty similar in the PS other than the fact that there's not so much of a bonus culture in the PS and the private sector doesn't have lobby groups and vested interests watching every cent under every budget head.

A good way to reduce the inefficiencies would be to rein in the accountants and let managers manage their whole budget rather than having to spend hours every week explaining to a bean counter why a tenner was spent under the wrong budget heading.

[C. Flower]

Using money at the end of the year rather than returning it to the general pot isn't of itself evidence of waste. The projects it's spent on may be very good but lacked priority when the budget was being allocated.

That said, there are inefficiencies in the way large organisations do their budgeting. My experience is in the private sector but it's probably pretty similar in the PS other than the fact that there's not so much of a bonus culture in the PS and the private sector doesn't have lobby groups and vested interests watching every cent under every budget head.

A good way to reduce the inefficiencies would be to rein in the accountants and let managers manage their whole budget rather than having to spend hours every week explaining to a bean counter why a tenner was spent under the wrong budget heading.

Multi-annual budgets would be more effiicient.

Money is spent in a rush every end of year doing unneccessary road works in unsuitable weather.

[Baron von Biffo]

Multi-annual budgets would be more effiicient.

Perhaps. In so far as the rush to use up all the money before the end of the budget cycle would happen less often.

Money is spent in a rush every end of year doing unneccessary road works in unsuitable weather.

Those using the roads in question might disagree with your opinion that the repairs are unnecessary.

The position we're in at the moment is that a budget over-run is regarded as worse than biting the head off a kitten on live television. That leads to money being held back until the last minute in case an unforeseen cost arises late in the year and the kitty is dry.

[goatstoe]

Using money at the end of the year rather than returning it to the general pot isn't of itself evidence of waste. The projects it's spent on may be very good but lacked priority when the budget was being allocated.

That said, there are inefficiencies in the way large organisations do their budgeting. My experience is in the private sector but it's probably pretty similar in the PS other than the fact that there's not so much of a bonus culture in the PS and the private sector doesn't have lobby groups and vested interests watching every cent under every budget head.

A good way to reduce the inefficiencies would be to rein in the accountants and let managers manage their whole budget rather than having to spend hours every week explaining to a bean counter why a tenner was spent under the wrong budget heading.

So you agree that the existing system is wholly inadequate and needs changing. You have a roundabout way of putting it, but that appears to be what you are saying. Well I'm of the opinion that the existing inefficient wasteful system must be changed as a matter of priority.

I don't hear any discourse about how to tackle this issue and make departmental spending more efficient, I just hear blather and pointless bullyboy bullsh*t from the likes of Hogan.

It would be more in their line to come up with creative ways to improve efficiency in public spending, especially in the context where they are bringing in new charges for the public.

[fluffybiscuits]

Just to add that a canteen is more or less a need under health and safety legislation. This may only go so far as to have somewhere where people can take their lunch but its still a requirement. The notion that a canteen is a luxury or a privelege is nonsense , its a basic necessity.

[Baron von Biffo]

So you agree that the existing system is wholly inadequate and needs changing. You have a roundabout way of putting it, but that appears to be what you are saying. Well I'm of the opinion that the existing inefficient wasteful system must be changed as a matter of priority.

I don't hear any discourse about how to tackle this issue and make departmental spending more efficient, I just hear blather and pointless bullyboy bullsh*t from the likes of Hogan.

It would be more in their line to come up with creative ways to improve efficiency in public spending, especially in the context where they are bringing in new charges for the public.

There's no such thing as a system that's 100% efficient.

What would you add to the discourse you're calling for? Do you know of some more efficient way of doing things that pretty much every large organisation in the world, public and private, would give an arm and a leg for?

[goatstoe]

There's no such thing as a system that's 100% efficient.

No-one expects 100% efficiency, but there's no harm in creating a culture that strives for that.

What would you add to the discourse you're calling for? Do you know of some more efficient way of doing things that pretty much every large organisation in the world, public and private, would give an arm and a leg for?

I think the possible multi annual budget system mentioned above could be considered. I think that in this country being creative is degraded as being dodgy or something, largely due to inertia.

Phrases like "creative accounting" are often used to imply possible ways to infer codding the existing conventional, conservative and turgid system, that kind of notion. We need creative thinking to be used in a more positive fashion.

As regards departmental budgets, a more flexible approach than the current yearly budget allocation should be implemented.

[Baron von Biffo]

The moratorium on PS recruitment and the overtime ban are creating a gravy train for private sector firms who picked up €176M last year. If we had a properly staffed health service we could save the costs, fees and profits of the agencies.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...m-3213332.html

[DCon]

The moratorium on PS recruitment and the overtime ban are creating a gravy train for private sector firms who picked up €176M last year. If we had a properly staffed health service we could save the costs, fees and profits of the agencies.

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...m-3213332.html

How many HSE/government/Dr. Jim Reilly insiders are involved in these agencies I wonder?