Why are the Irish afraid of the Hard Left?

[Baron von Biffo]

The nub of the thread - the idea that human nature decrees that there will always be a corrupt elite, irrespective of what system exists - and that the majority of people will always be exploited by them.

What makes you certain of that? It was not the case in hunter gatherer society, which accounts for most of the existence of the human species. If it was not the case then, it can't be "human nature" that accounts for exploitative elites.

To say that we are by nature a hierarchical species is not the same as saying that corruption or exploitation is part of our nature.

[Baron von Biffo]

Interesting thread. I dont know that fear is the right explanation for why people dont look to the hard-left for leadership. I would say the main reason is scepticism about their ideas, their.vague programmes and failure to specify what they stand for rather than what they're against.

If we take the ULA to be what most Irish people would see as the hard left then scepticism may be an overly generous assessment. Derision and contempt would probably be more accurate.

You hit the nail on the head when you say they're more known for what they oppose than what they propose.

[C. Flower]

If we take the ULA to be what most Irish people would see as the hard left then scepticism may be an overly generous assessment. Derision and contempt would probably be more accurate.

You hit the nail on the head when you say they're more known for what they oppose than what they propose.

That certainly isn't universally true. Joe Higgins and Clare Daly are respected and admired by many people, particularly those involved in the HC and WC campaign.

I don't think there is any innate prejudice in Ireland against the left, but people are partisan politically, depending on their background and class viewpoint.

[Baron von Biffo]

That certainly isn't universally true. Joe Higgins and Clare Daly are respected and admired by many people, particularly those involved in the HC and WC campaign.

Gay Mitchell is respected in FG but his presidential result was derisory. Being a hero to your own is no good if you alienate the general public.

I don't think there is any innate prejudice in Ireland against the left, but people are partisan politically, depending on their background and class viewpoint.

It's generally accepted that Ireland is unusual in that we haven't a left/right cleavage. Partisanship was traditionally along civil war lines.

[fluffybiscuits]

That certainly isn't universally true. Joe Higgins and Clare Daly are respected and admired by many people, particularly those involved in the HC and WC campaign.

I don't think there is any innate prejudice in Ireland against the left, but people are partisan politically, depending on their background and class viewpoint.

Clare Daly gets a lot of respect from people as she is not afraid to challenge the establishment on a lot of issues. When she brought the private members bill on abortion a lot of people sat up and took note, here was a woman who took the interests of the women in Ireland seriously and did her best to change it. Often when people vote they vote in line with class politics (FF in the upper echelons and ULA in working class areas) or as I often found they voted because of family viewpoints. There are a lot of people out there who just wont let FF die a slow death as their family voted FF they do too. My parents are FG/Lab, my brother Shinners and me ULA, that is because we are all aware of the issues and discuss them and dont vote like sheeple. The hard left are badly disorganised, I dont think people are scared more bemused or ignorant of what the hard left can offer. Citing an example of the former, we dont hear about meetings until too late or bemused, well Ming anyone???

[fluffybiscuits]

http://mentioningthewar.blogspot.ie/...iscussion.html

[Maximus]

What do you know about socialism?

I just said it in the post you quoted.