Ocean Warming and Ice Melt

**C. Flower** · 30-07-2012, 08:47 AM

In the last week or so, an unusual ice melt event took place on Greenland.

On average, about half of the surface of the ice sheet melts during the summer. But from July 8 to July 12, the ice melt expanded from 40 percent of the ice sheet to 97 percent, according to scientists who analyzed the data from satellites deployed by NASA and India’s space research institute.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/25/sc...ice-sheet.html

Great piece here from Geekmom -

While this news is very significant in the climatology and glaciology community, some are going step further and are attempting to connect it with other indicators of climate change. The definitive answer to that question is not clear and many news outlets are doing a good job providing a balanced view of this news. Several points should be made about this news:

The media is using the term “unprecedented”. In fact, the NASA press release about this is using the term “unprecedented”. What is “unprecedented” about this news is the ability for the satellites to see the warming, and the speed with which that data can be seen by the scientists. The warming itself certainly is not unprecedented. Conditions supporting this were last measured directly in 1889, and ice core samples, which have the ability offer evidence of climate conditions over 100,000 years old, have indicated that vast warming occurs approximately every 150 years. For this to happen in 2012 is not unreasonable.

The satellites taking the measurements require some understanding regarding their capabilities and limitations. Greenland is unique in that there is very little else besides rock, ice, snow and water for measurement. So I’m more confident in Greenland’s data than I would be in many other locations. Sand, loam, clay, forests and urban areas can often make detection more difficult. The two satellites mentioned above that measure reflectivities of the land mass surface (Oceansat-2 and SSM/I) are only measuring a few centimeters deep. It essentially measures data that translates into water on the surface. So even if there’s a slight sheen of water for the satellites to sense, there could still be miles of ice directly underneath. As soon as the temperatures dip below freezing again, it will freeze again.

Melting happens on Greenland every year at this time. The melting itself is not what’s unusual. It’s the amount of melting. Temperatures have been measured as high as 42F this July at locations that rarely exceed freezing temperatures year-round, according to NASA scientist Tom Wagner. Some media outlets are coming up with some pretty crazy headlines that might make readers believe Greenland has never experienced melting before.
Because we have more data than ever before to assess this current melting period, it’s difficult to compare it to the very limited data — point data, if you will — of all the previous melting events. Ice cores and temperature measurements are many kilometers apart.

So I pose the question to the readers: Is this a short-term event, similar to the “derecho” that transited across the eastern Continental U.S. on June 29th, or is this a pointer to long-term climate change? My opinion: we don’t have enough data to make that connection. I’m not debunking the connection, nor am I proclaiming this a symptom of global warming.

What’s your opinion?

This didn't come out of the blue. Ice melt has been accelerating for some time.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Du54ipxGYE"]Accelerating Greenland Ice Sheet [720p] - YouTube[/ame]

1979-2009 - NASA video.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLittKUEH1o&feature=related"]NASA Video Shows Greenland Melting - YouTube[/ame]

**C. Flower** · 27-09-2012, 07:36 PM

Very serious concerns about sea ice loss and methane release.

In the sobering analysis published in the Guardian Wadhams, writes: “This collapse, I predicted would occur in 2015-16 at which time the summer Arctic (August to September) would become ice-free. The final collapse towards that state is now happening and will probably be complete by those dates”. The resulting loss of the ice’s albedo is resulting in a feedback loop where the ocean is absorbing more energy and causing the ice to melt faster.

Wadhams goes on to explain the loss of ice will then cause the ocean water to warm up, which then warms the ocean floor. Much of the Arctic continental shelf is composed of offshore permafrost which contains methane, a very powerful greenhouse gas. The release of permafrost methane is what keeps many climatologists up at night, as a runaway greenhouse effect would result if a significant portion of it is released.

What was long a hypothetical scenario could very well be measured in a few years time and potentially unstoppable. Wadham warns that a significant reduction in CO2 emissions needs to happen now. He also calls for using geo-engineering technologies to slow the warming of the earth

Read more: Scientist Provides Blunt Prediction of Total Arctic Ice Loss in Four Years | Inhabitat - Sustainable Design Innovation, Eco Architecture, Green Building

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...90.html?via=mr

**jpc** · 27-09-2012, 08:16 PM

At this point there is Jack Sht that can be done about it.

**C. Flower** · 27-09-2012, 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by jpc

At this point there is Jack Sht that can be done about it.

Inevitably, it will be used by the nuclear lobby.

Pity it would be so difficult to harness the methane.

**DCon** · 27-09-2012, 08:31 PM

skiing on pee because of global warming

This coming ski season, the resort, Arizona Snowbowl, will become the first ski resort in the world to use 100 percent sewage effluent to make artificial snow.

“It’s a disaster, culturally and environmentally,” said Taylor McKinnon of the Center for Biological Diversity, one of the plaintiffs. He worries about the impact on the delicate alpine tundra and to human health should skiers fall into the treated sewer-water snow and ingest it.

“Snow-making has become necessary because of climate change,” he said. It allows for a more consistent ski season, bringing money into neighboring Flagstaff, which contracted to sell Snowbowl the water from its sewage treatment plant.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/27/us...me&ref=general

**cliste** · 27-09-2012, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by jpc

At this point there is Jack Sht that can be done about it.

I don't think that's true.

At the very least the impact of it can be reduced, if the speed at which it happens is slowed down then it could buy humanity time to come up with other fixes.

**Captain Con O'Sullivan** · 28-09-2012, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by jpc

At this point there is Jack Sht that can be done about it.

+1 Yep. I see no indication whatsoever that anyone of any note is prepared to even contemplate taking any radical action to combat climate change.

Sit back and enjoy the ride. We here may be the last generation not to have to be confronted by its implications.

The Methane gas release issue may be the real killer alright. We've had a lot of shifts and grinds in tectonic plates around the pacific region as well which is a glacial sort of process but if we do get pockets of methane escaping into the atmosphere then it is pretty much into the irreversible- or at least for a few thousand or hundreds of thousands of years until the environment shifts again.

The Gaia mechanism isn't going to be concerned at all about those ticks on its back called 'humans'. It'll just roll over, kill the majority and shakeitself and settle down on its paws for another quick forty wink-aeons.

**cliste** · 28-09-2012, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan

Sit back and enjoy the ride. We here may be the last generation not to have to be confronted by its implications.

No Artic sea ice by 2016 - unless you're planning to die very soon I think this generation will have to deal with a drastically changed environment.

**Captain Con O'Sullivan** · 28-09-2012, 09:42 AM

Yes. I should have thought that once we get a lot of freshwater melt into the salt seas we will see a temperature change on a dramatic level- which might not seem a lot to you or me but to the climate, seacurrents such as the Gulf stream and in turn aircurrents then that all spells to me an increasingly unstable system.

Probably at the fringes of the climate zones at first and then accelerating. That is my own reading of what is likely to happen. I do think that this could be relatively slow in relation to the amount of time this current generation are alive but there are challenges for the next generation.

Optimistically it wouldn't surprise me at all to find that the next generation finds a simple technical solution so never say die but I know deep down that actions thus far by humanity are a hoax- and damaging because they are a hoax as they just use up time the next generation haven't got.

The methane thing is potentially deadly and it may take a northern city somewhere near the arctic circle experiencing a methane-based event before the world jerks awake to this issue.