Worries about Spain - and Greece

[simonj]

A statistic from a Fisk article to explain the Arab revolutions.
Latest figures show that 58 per cent of Syrian's population under 24 years old are unemployed (higher, even, than Egypt), while 48 per cent of the 18-29 year-old age range – a statistic only beaten by Yemen – have no jobs. They do now, of course. Most have joined the Syrian revolt.

Mass male youth unemployment partially created the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt and we see in modern media the haves and have nots very clearly.
This situation was also IMHO reflected in the London riots.

Spain, as well as Greece, are relatively young democracies, and this situation is going to become intolerable for many young people, particularly men.

They see a very rich caste who insist on austerity, but who have everything - cars, houses, holidays, food - while their standard of living gets more and more poor.

Could we be looking at a period of such poverty and instability that hard line right wing parties might come again to the fore with assurances of Law and Order and stability?

[C. Flower]

The existence of a very large youth population world wide, and the lack of meaningful jobs for most of them, is imo a product of a decades-long inflationary boom, which supported population growth, followed by the ongoing catastrophic economic collapse into which the boom has imploded.The whole market dominated globalised "for profit" economy is completely non-viable - and is drowning in excess capital which has no home to go to.

When faced with similar, but lesser, situation in the last century there has been war and revolution, as classes battle over who will pay the price of wiping out the vast overhang of unspendable cash and irretrievable debt. The rich and powerful have no intention of being caught, and in fact have been getting richer since the crash. "Every crisis is an opportunity" to the cash-rich.

The hard right - including a form of right wing islamic reaction - is being nurtured, to oppose any progressive movements that might look for social change and equality. The mass of people don't want the hard right, but we urgently need to create a more powerful alternative, if it is to be stopped.

[Holly]

No, it is the old nationalists who are right-wing and most young people are anti-fascist in Spain. The Popular Party there is supported by the rich and old fogies.

[riposte]

A statistic from a Fisk article to explain the Arab revolutions.
Latest figures show that 58 per cent of Syrian's population under 24 years old are unemployed (higher, even, than Egypt), while 48 per cent of the 18-29 year-old age range – a statistic only beaten by Yemen – have no jobs. They do now, of course. Most have joined the Syrian revolt.

Mass male youth unemployment partially created the uprisings in Tunisia and Egypt and we see in modern media the haves and have nots very clearly.
This situation was also IMHO reflected in the London riots.

Spain, as well as Greece, are relatively young democracies, and this situation is going to become intolerable for many young people, particularly men.

They see a very rich caste who insist on austerity, but who have everything - cars, houses, holidays, food - while their standard of living gets more and more poor.

Could we be looking at a period of such poverty and instability that hard line right wing parties might come again to the fore with assurances of Law and Order and stability?

Hi! simonj ... one of the difficulties is the confusion in the minds of many in the west who thought they were seeing a left wing aspect to the uprising in the Muslim countries where violent protests and armed rebellion broke out.

Nothing could be further from the truth .... this is primarily an Islamic fight-back against western secularism and American imperialism and it's puppets..... if there was a similar uprising by Christians against secular westernism ........ it would be described as right-wing or fascism.

In that sense........we have already seen a rise of "right-wing parties."

[Ogiol]

No, it is the old nationalists who are right-wing and most young people are anti-fascist in Spain. The Popular Party there is supported by the rich and old fogies.

it really depends on the nationalism. Basque is now almost split half and half.

The PP are a dinosaur party, where Paisley would find very attractive (if they werent catholic

Im not too sure most young people are anti-fascist either. Many (most i think) seem to buy into the PPSEO's brand of nationalism (as in against catalan or basque)

[Holly]

it really depends on the nationalism. Basque is now almost split half and half.

The Fascists under Franco were right-wing nationalists who believed in Spanish cultural, ethnic, and linguistic identity. It is for this reason, in part, that the Basques and Catalans were suppressed. The regional nationalisms there tend to sympathize with the left-wing against the Madrid-centered government.

Im not too sure most young people are anti-fascist either. Many (most i think) seem to buy into the PPSEO's brand of nationalism (as in against catalan or basque)

Most young Spaniards would not like to see their country disintegrate but that does not mean they are nationalist, just unsupportive of smaller nation states based on culture, ethnicity, and language (the hallmarks of nationalism).

[Sam Lord]

Hi! simonj ... one of the difficulties is the confusion in the minds of many in the west who thought they were seeing a left wing aspect to the uprising in the Muslim countries where violent protests and armed rebellion broke out.

Nothing could be further from the truth .... this is primarily an Islamic fight-back against western secularism and American imperialism and it's puppets..... if there was a similar uprising by Christians against secular westernism ........ it would be described as right-wing or fascism.

In that sense........we have already seen a rise of "right-wing parties."

Your thesis has no basis in fact. There is no doubt that what lay behind the "Arab Spring" were the economic conditions and the situation of the youth in the countries involved. It was not "left wing" in the sense of the masses consciously working for socialist revolution but it was spawned by the material conditions in these countries and not some Islamic ideology. In many places - Tunisia, Egypt - the Islamists played no initial role in the uprisings at all.

You may not understand this now but it will clearer to you as time passes and the Islamic parties that come to power (like in Tunisia) are unable to solve any of the economic problems and provide a future for the youth. The revolution will continue to uinfold.

[riposte]

Your thesis has no basis in fact. There is no doubt that what lay behind the "Arab Spring" were the economic conditions and the situation of the youth in the countries involved. It was not "left wing" in the sense of the masses consciously working for socialist revolution but it was spawned by the material conditions in these countries and not some Islamic ideology. In many places - Tunisia, Egypt - the Islamists played no initial role in the uprisings at all.

You may not understand this now but it will clearer to you as time passes and the Islamic parties that come to power (like in Tunisia) are unable to solve any of the economic problems and provide a future for the youth. The revolution will continue to uinfold.

I agree Sam ...the revolution will continue to unfold.... the Islamic revolution..... supported by America and the UN....lol !!

[Sam Lord]

A statistic from a Fisk article to explain the Arab revolutions.

Any chance of a link to the article? It might help inform those of us who are a bit remedial.

[riposte]

Any chance of a link to the article? It might help inform those of us who are a bit remedial.

lol !!

[C. Flower]

Hi! simonj ... one of the difficulties is the confusion in the minds of many in the west who thought they were seeing a left wing aspect to the uprising in the Muslim countries where violent protests and armed rebellion broke out.

Nothing could be further from the truth .... this is primarily an Islamic fight-back against western secularism and American imperialism and it's puppets..... if there was a similar uprising by Christians against secular westernism ........ it would be described as right-wing or fascism.

In that sense........we have already seen a rise of "right-wing parties."

Most commentators agree that it was primarily driven by unemployment, poverty and opposition to neo-liberal economic policies.

The popular uprisings were characterised by joint Christian/Muslim/agnostic demonstrations. The intersecting cross and crescent is commonly seen in "arab spring" protests.

Of course, the yanks would like to reshape it into a "sectarian conflict" as usual.

[riposte]

Most commentators agree that it was primarily driven by unemployment, poverty and opposition to neo-liberal economic policies.Of course, the yanks would like to reshape it into a "sectarian conflict" as usual.

It wouldn't be the first time that most commentators were wrong.

The popular uprisings were characterised by joint Christian/Muslim/agnostic demonstrations. The intersecting cross and crescent is commonly seen in "arab spring" protests

Wishful thinking on behalf of the left.

Of course, the yanks would like to reshape it into a "sectarian conflict" as usual.

A quarter of the world's population are Muslim. Islam is unacceptable to both the right and the left in the west. People who believe in God are regarded as primitive, deluded and dangerous. Moreover, Islam acts a a significant barrier to globalism and capitalism. This is intolerable to the west.

The West is intolerable to Islam.

The stasis (Modus vivendi ) which has existed between Islam and Christianity since the battle of Lepanto is over

[Griska]

The "Arab Spring" was begun due to the fact that many people found it difficult to feed themselves and their families.

Simples.

And there are countless Fisk articles on the issue.
I wonder which one the OP refers to.