86% of Irish people believe corruption is a major problem

[Slim Buddha]

For your guide, Baron, I have lived in Ireland in the very recent past. For seven months and I still bear the scars.

Negotiation is something I do as part of my professional life. I have people around me who are expert in their field. I do not have passengers on any negotiating team to which I belong. I know one thing about negotiations and that is that the number of participants in a negotiating process should be kept to a minimum. Foghorning gobshytes need not apply.

I don't know about the practices in the Irish public sector these days so I cannot comment about how negotiations are conducted there. My experience is mainly with European corporations and can only comment on how negotiations are conducted in this environment.

[Baron von Biffo]

I thought the policy was what got them elected in the first place. The political party developed it, the Minister/Opposition Spokesman discussed it, they campaigned on it, they put it before the voters, they explained it and finally got elected on it. What more do they need to know about it? The hack is superfluous.

They must implement it in the government department to which the policy applies. Which is where the expertise of the professional civil servants comes in. Hacks are not expert in the machinations of government departments whereas Secretaries General, Assistant Secretaries etc. are. The hack has no role to play here either.

So what is the employment of political hacks except some form of welfare for party political creatures who in many cases would otherwise be unemployable?

Have a read of this.

[Baron von Biffo]

For your guide, Baron, I have lived in Ireland in the very recent past. For seven months and I still bear the scars.

Negotiation is something I do as part of my professional life. I have people around me who are expert in their field. I do not have passengers on any negotiating team to which I belong. I know one thing about negotiations and that is that the number of participants in a negotiating process should be kept to a minimum. Foghorning gobshytes need not apply.

I don't know about the practices in the Irish public sector these days so I cannot comment about how negotiations are conducted there. My experience is mainly with European corporations and can only comment on how negotiations are conducted in this environment.

And with all your experience you didn't dispute my comment.

[Slim Buddha]

And with all your experience you didn't dispute my comment.

Well obviously I dispute your demand that we should pay political hacks from the public purse.

[Slim Buddha]

[QUOTE=Baron von Biffo;264363]Have a read of this.[/QUOT


Good for him and good luck to him. Meanwhile in Irish politics, the same shyte that has gone on since 1926 goes on..............

[Slim Buddha]

[QUOTE=Slim Buddha;264467][QUOTE=Baron von Biffo;264363]Have a read of this.[/QUOT

What has this to do with the cowpat we have to deal with now?

[Baron von Biffo]

[quote=Slim Buddha;264480]

What has this to do with the cowpat we have to deal with now?

Read it (with an open mind) and be enlightened.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Biffo, on the grounds of consistency alone you are the closest thing this forum has to a Fianna Failer.

'Nothing to see here' emblazoned figuratively across your forehead. And people wonder when I point out that FF's bedrock vote seems to waver between 14 to 17% which is remarkably close to to the number of civil servants/public servants we have in the state.

There is no political system in Ireland. There's a patronage system alright and a memorably corrupt one when you think that any and all of the major revelations in Irish corporate governance since 2007 could not have existed or been attempted without the active participation of Irish Civil and Public Servants.

For a gangster politician in Ireland to be successful he or she has to be connected into the civil and public administration system to complete their sole function which is the diversion of public resources into private pockets.

Deny that all you like- the news proves you wrong every time.

[Slim Buddha]

Biffo, on the grounds of consistency alone you are the closest thing this forum has to a Fianna Failer.

'Nothing to see here' emblazoned figuratively across your forehead. And people wonder when I point out that FF's bedrock vote seems to waver between 14 to 17% which is remarkably close to to the number of civil servants/public servants we have in the state.

There is no political system in Ireland. There's a patronage system alright and a memorably corrupt one when you think that any and all of the major revelations in Irish corporate governance since 2007 could not have existed or been attempted without the active participation of Irish Civil and Public Servants.

For a gangster politician in Ireland to be successful he or she has to be connected into the civil and public administration system to complete their sole function which is the diversion of public resources into private pockets.Deny that all you like- the news proves you wrong every time.

That has been going on since the foundation of the state. It is really only since 1979 and Haughey's ascent to the leadership of Fianna Fail that corruption became the leitmotif of that party and infected everything around it. That Baron does not see anything wrong with political parties appointing hacks to siphon off public money for dubious "advice" which is supposed to assist Ministers when such advice is not needed nor should the public be stiffed with the bill for it shows merely that some people are content to think they have drifted on to the set of "The West Wing".

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

I just wonder, on pointing out that the top civil servants accepted a bribe from Charlie McCreevy, whether given a choice between 'independence' which means paying back that money or remaining schtum how many of them would get their cheque book out.

We know there is a lot of corruption at council level- as Phil Hogan's having rather embarrassedly to cancel investigations into zoning and planning corruption around the country would indicate.

I've seen how the corruption works at the top level between the parties and the civil service. At the middle level we have uninerrupted thievery at CIE where there has been a jamboree of selling off equipment out the back door and backhanders for contracts where no work is visible, and at middle level where Fas managers have been fraudulently misusing public funds to take holidays to Australia on the taxpayers money- and retained their jobs no less.

We have Gardai who think they can be convicted of serious assault caught on camera and wonder aloud when they can just forget about the whole embarrassing business and go back to their job as if a court appearance for assault by a police officer is some kind of annoying halfg-day interruption to their inevitable progress towards a pension.

The place is rank with corruption of one kind or another. And much of it necessarily comes from a culture of corruption within civil, public and state bodies.

How can civil servants/public servants demand to be viewed with respect when there is not much visible for the taxpayer to respect?

[Slim Buddha]

I just wonder, on pointing out that the top civil servants accepted a bribe from Charlie McCreevy, whether given a choice between 'independence' which means paying back that money or remaining schtum how many of them would get their cheque book out.

We know there is a lot of corruption at council level- as Phil Hogan's having rather embarrassedly to cancel investigations into zoning and planning corruption around the country would indicate.

I've seen how the corruption works at the top level between the parties and the civil service. At the middle level we have uninerrupted thievery at CIE where there has been a jamboree of selling off equipment out the back door and backhanders for contracts where no work is visible, and at middle level where Fas managers have been fraudulently misusing public funds to take holidays to Australia on the taxpayers money- and retained their jobs no less.

We have Gardai who think they can be convicted of serious assault caught on camera and wonder aloud when they can just forget about the whole embarrassing business and go back to their job as if a court appearance for assault by a police officer is some kind of annoying halfg-day interruption to their inevitable progress towards a pension.

The place is rank with corruption of one kind or another. And much of it necessarily comes from a culture of corruption within civil, public and state bodies.

How can civil servants/public servants demand to be viewed with respect when there is not much visible for the taxpayer to respect?

During last year´s Presidential election campaign,I seem to remember that one of Sean Gallagher´s income streams was "advising" GAA clubs on how to get grants of government money.to develop their clubs and activities. He is alleged to have charged thousands for this advice. And GAA Clubs presumably paid him for this.

This says that basically a party apparachtik can place himself between the applicant and the money and cream some off by virtue of the fact that he is a party apparachtik.
The GAA club pays because of the perception that a "party" man is holding the hand of the application through the process. If they pay, the application will be successful. After all, the party man´s party are in power. The contra-indicating perception is that if they don´t pay the hack, the application may fail. Because some must fail for the others to succeed. This is a classic FF "business model" based on fear and pure patronage.

[Kev Bar]

14% of Irish people are very stupid, very blind or profoundly corrupt.