Ireland and US Presidents

[Dr. FIVE]

Does it strike anyone else that Ireland (from my reading at least) has always been very supportive of the Democrats but would probably behind the GOP all the way if they lived in America?

[Count Bobulescu]

It’s not just Ireland that is supportive of the Democrats over the GOP, it’s pretty much the rest of the world. I don’t really understand the second half of your contention. Got any examples of what you mean?

[Dr. FIVE]

I don’t really understand the second half of your contention. Got any examples of what you mean?

We goes for democrat presidents but republican policies. Probably not unique to Ireland as you rightly point out,

We tend to admire the liberal and cosmopolitan from a far but remain deeply conservative when it comes to any real decision making at home. The Kennedy and Clinton factor would be a big contribution obviously. Obama being the exemption as a bit of a worldwide phenomenon, initially at least but we tend to cheer on Democratic Presidents (personalities?) but would find ourselves on the side of his detractors fairly quick if it was a choice between either policy.

[Holly]

The largest political party in Ireland is right-wing, believing in privatization of state enterprises, reliant on entrepreneurs for economic growth and the reduction of unemployment with a rejection of government responsibility to care for the poor and needy. This is more characteristic of the American Republican Party than the Democrats.

[Count Bobulescu]

There are several ways to slice the US/Ireland/Europe comparison, and they will all get you different results, largely because the systems are different. The US mostly has divided government with different parties in control of the House, Senate and White House. That leads to a lot of compromise or a lot of inaction. The GOP at the moment appears not to have a plan to cover those without medical insurance, (50 million). Europe is generally further to the left than the US, but Ireland is one of the most conservative countries in Europe. Even so, I doubt that the Irish would vote to deprive 16% of healthcare.

It is widely believed that since the Gingrich revolution of 1994 the GOP has moved so far to the right that Ronald Reagan could not get the nomination today. There are almost no GOP members of Congress from the North East these days. The GOP is facing a major demographic hurdle with the rise of the Hispanic vote which goes at least 65% Democratic. It is speculated that by 2020 the Hispanic vote might flip Texas to the Democrats. Unthinkable until recently. Or just look at the problems Mitt Romney had/has with the Tea Party base.

On balance I’d describe Ireland as center left, and the US as center right. Ireland might have a right wing government now, but I doubt that many Irish would support the GOP today. They are too militarily hawkish, religiously fundamental etc. The only attraction I could see them having is their talk of lower taxes.

The US is mostly a 49/51% country, so to get elected Presidents need to A: have broad appeal which tends to water down the more extreme policies that their party advocates, and B: be able to thread a fine needle of appealing to the relatively small number of floating voters that will take them from 49 to 51%.

Bottom line, I think the US right, is much further to the right, than certainly the Irish right, and even most of the European right.

[Holly]

...
On balance I’d describe Ireland as center left

What is "left" about the Fine Gwael-led government?
If you mean that the Irish people believe in socialism but always vote for a capitalist party, then on what do you base your belief that the left has any attraction to the electorate?

... and the US as center right.

What is "center" about either American party or the American electorate?

... I think the US right, is much further to the right, than certainly the Irish right, and even most of the European right.

"most"???
I would go further and state that there is no European country as right-wing as the USA.

[Count Bobulescu]

What is "left" about the Fine Gwael-led government?
If you mean that the Irish people believe in socialism but always vote for a capitalist party, then on what do you base your belief that the left has any attraction to the electorate?


What is "center" about either American party or the American electorate?


"most"???
I would go further and state that there is no European country as right-wing as the USA.

You clearly didn’t read carefully, I already noted @#5 that Ireland currently has a right wing Government. I would describe FF as center left, and they have ruled the most. Draw whatever conclusions you wish about the Irish electorate from that.

I think the US Democratic party is a centrist party, you may not.

When comparing/contrasting the US and Europe I deliberately left out the European hard right Neo-Nazi types out of my assessment, because I don’t believe they are electable in the same way that the Tea Party people have shown themselves to be electable in the US. Factor them in and elements in Europe are as far to the right as in the US. Further, this very PW forum has its own thread about the rise of the far right in Europe.

[Holly]

... I would describe FF as center left, and they have ruled the most. Draw whatever conclusions you wish about the Irish electorate from that.

Good Lord! Fianna Fail has been closer to entrepreneurs and the banksters that any party since the beginning of the state. Their encouragement of privatizing state bodies and land speculation is notorious. There isn't an ounce of socialism in that party.

I think the US Democratic party is a centrist party, you may not.

The Democratic Party is not in favor of the Federal Government owning any enterprises or running business. There is nothing to distinguish it from the Republican Party except in degree of how right wing both are. Even the so-called Obamacare policy guarantees that all medical insurance will be in the hands of private companies as are all hospitals. It is capitalist through-and-through, not even close to a mixed economy of state and private enterprise which defines being center.

When comparing/contrasting the US and Europe I deliberately left out the European hard right Neo-Nazi types out of my assessment, because I don’t believe they are electable in the same way that the Tea Party people have shown themselves to be electable in the US. Factor them in and elements in Europe are as far to the right as in the US. Further, this very PW forum has its own thread about the rise of the far right in Europe.

Jeepers! The Nazis were defeated in the middle of the last century and there is no fascist country in Europe. Whatever about right-wing parties or fringe elements in Europe, they control no parliament. All countries in the European Union are very much to the left of the two American parties.

[Count Bobulescu]

Good Lord! Fianna Fail has been closer to entrepreneurs and the banksters that any party since the beginning of the state. Their encouragement of privatizing state bodies and land speculation is notorious. There isn't an ounce of socialism in that party.


The Democratic Party is not in favor of the Federal Government owning any enterprises or running business. There is nothing to distinguish it from the Republican Party except in degree of how right wing both are. Even the so-called Obamacare policy guarantees that all medical insurance will be in the hands of private companies as are all hospitals. It is capitalist through-and-through, not even close to a mixed economy of state and private enterprise which defines being center.


Jeepers! The Nazis were defeated in the middle of the last century and there is no fascist country in Europe. Whatever about right-wing parties or fringe elements in Europe, they control no parliament. All countries in the European Union are very much to the left of the two American parties.

I didn’t describe FF as left wing, I said center left, there is a difference and it can be big.

The Democratic party pumped $80 Billion of taxpayer money into the Detroit auto companies in 2008, to say nothing of the banks and AIG.
By your definition of right and center, there are no left governments in the world save for Cuba, and North Korea. By your definition China would be “mixed”.

Yeah I heard the war was over, it’s great news. Sometimes I think you read but don’t comprehend.