Dissident republicans

[Trow]

Maybe I should change my views to please everybody.

Yeah do that, i'd suggest more Marxism. Chico policy could help shoulder the wheel and get Sinn Fein out of the rut.

[riposte]

Yeah do that, i'd suggest more Marxism. Chico policy could help shoulder the wheel and get Sinn Fein out of the rut.

lol !!

[Trow]

Yeah do that, i'd suggest more Marxism. Chico policy could help shoulder the wheel and get Sinn Fein out of the rut.

lol !!

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children. [Bobby Sands]

[Sam Lord]

Maybe I should change my views to please everybody.

No. No. Not at all. Press on.

[C. Flower]

Not really, when I say an "all Ireland vote" I mean one with all 32 counties voting as one bloc on the issue of partition, the very thing republicans argued for for decades.

I think that is the morally right way for the issue to be decided.

However it seems thats not a realistic wish so we are left with the GFA and the hope that unionists will be outbred and a few of their less loyal brethren switching allegiance.

Plenty of people voted against the GFA for reasons nothing to do with militarism, for or against. The anti-political militarist strand of Irish republicanism has in my opinion done untold damage and reaction against it was one of the main reasons the GFA was voted through.

People voted out of thirst for an end to killings, and were bombed into the vote.

The GFA has created a raft of institutions that have drawn Ireland closer into the UK, rather than closer to independence.

It relinquished all of Ireland's clear legal claims to a right to exist, north or south.

The GFA could never work long term, as it was miss-sold. It was a top-down swindle, never intended to bring about a united Ireland, and made without community involvement.

I think there are quite a few groups that are pro-united Ireland and several anti-GFA Republican groups against militarism. Anarchist groups are against it. It would be interesting to compile a list.

[riposte]

Plenty of people voted against the GFA for reasons nothing to do with militarism, for or against. The anti-political militarist strand of Irish republicanism has in my opinion done untold damage and reaction against it was one of the main reasons the GFA was voted through.

People voted out of thirst for an end to killings, and were bombed into the vote.

The GFA has created a raft of institutions that have drawn Ireland closer into the UK, rather than closer to independence.

It relinquished all of Ireland's clear legal claims to a right to exist, north or south.

The GFA could never work long term, as it was miss-sold. It was a top-down swindle, never intended to bring about a united Ireland, and made without community involvement.

I think there are quite a few groups that are pro-united Ireland and several anti-GFA Republican groups against militarism. Anarchist groups are against it. It would be interesting to compile a list.

Well Cactus ..... I have to say I believe you are wrong in every statement in this post ...... but then these things are not a matter of belief ..... time will tell.

[C. Flower]

Saoirse the people of the 32 Counties voted ... any attempt to deny this is pure nonsense.

What is immoral about the way it was decided?

It's called democracy. What's wrong with the Good Friday Agreement anyway?

Who exactly voted for what ?

What were the options given ?

The GFA paid lip service to the desire of the majority for a united Ireland, but gave a permanent veto to the population of the North and required that all legal claims to a united Ireland in the Republic's Constitution be removed - and left the GFA and Constitution without any legal definition of the territory of the Republic.

It was made with involvement of the political parties of the North, but not the South.

It pretended that Ulster Scots was a language (the ultimate p-take).

It consolidated a sectarian form of Government.

It declared that the presence of British troops in Ireland is 'normal'.

"Constructive ambiguity" was used in drafting the Referendum with the deliberate intent of ensuring no-one knew what they were voting for.

It introduced quasi-Commonwealth forms of organisation, involving the UK and Ireland.

The North and South did not vote on the same things at all.

There was no option to vote for a United Ireland.

In May 1998, there were separate referendums concerning the Belfast Agreement. The referendum in Northern Ireland was a direct vote on the Agreement, while the vote in the Republic of Ireland was a vote to amend the Irish constitution in line with the Belfast Agreement.
The result of these referendums was a large majority in both parts of Ireland in favour of the Agreement. In the Republic, 56% of the electorate voted, with 94% of the votes in favour of the amendment to the Constitution. The turnout in Northern Ireland was 81%, with 71% of the votes in favour of the Agreement.
In the Republic, the electorate voted upon the nineteenth amendment to the Constitution of Ireland. This amendment both permitted the state to comply with the Belfast Agreement and provided for the removal of the 'territorial claim' contained in Articles 2 and 3.

[People Korps]

Who exactly voted for what ?

What were the options given ?

The GFA paid lip service to the desire of the majority for a united Ireland, but gave a permanent veto to the population of the North and required that all legal claims to a united Ireland in the Republic's Constitution be removed - and left the GFA and Constitution without any legal definition of the territory of the Republic.

It was made with involvement of the political parties of the North, but not the South.

It pretended that Ulster Scots was a language (the ultimate p-take).

It consolidated a sectarian form of Government.

It declared that the presence of British troops in Ireland is 'normal'.

"Constructive ambiguity" was used in drafting the Referendum with the deliberate intent of ensuring no-one knew what they were voting for.

It introduced quasi-Commonwealth forms of organisation, involving the UK and Ireland.

The North and South did not vote on the same things at all.

There was no option to vote for a United Ireland.

Ah now Cactus sure did it not make heroes of the bearded Garry and the unambiguous thug Martin....Marteen or Nutter to his pals Garry also ran his own nutting squad ....


Never has so much been given away for so little but it allowed for the Celtic Tiger to roar and as with Priory Hall the rape of the people was a cross party pursuit....Sf did well the fact that they killed thousands to scoop a bit of wage on pay day should be no surprise... audit the Adams family, audit Ferris etc they are a new aristocracy ....with their peace dividends...What the dissidents are trying to say is that One Monkey dont stop no show but they may well be wrong ....the PIRA pulled a show stopper.....

[riposte]

Who exactly voted for what ?

What were the options given ?

The GFA paid lip service to the desire of the majority for a united Ireland, but gave a permanent veto to the population of the North and required that all legal claims to a united Ireland in the Republic's Constitution be removed - and left the GFA and Constitution without any legal definition of the territory of the Republic.

It was made with involvement of the political parties of the North, but not the South.

It pretended that Ulster Scots was a language (the ultimate p-take).

It consolidated a sectarian form of Government.

It declared that the presence of British troops in Ireland is 'normal'.

"Constructive ambiguity" was used in drafting the Referendum with the deliberate intent of ensuring no-one knew what they were voting for.

It introduced quasi-Commonwealth forms of organisation, involving the UK and Ireland.

The North and South did not vote on the same things at all.

There was no option to vote for a United Ireland.

and no option to vote for a White Christmas either. Shocking!

Cactus the only thing you left out was ......."the vote was rigged."

[C. Flower]

and no option to vote for a White Christmas either. Shocking!

Cactus the only thing you left out was ......."the vote was rigged."

Are you claiming it was ? No point in blaming me - I didn't put the process together...

Statement of George Howarth to the House of Commons...

I spent two years trying to make the Good Friday agreement work in Northern Ireland. The agreement was based on a degree of obstructive ambiguity, although the Northern Ireland Office was always keen for me not to express it in those terms. We brought Sinn Fein, the republican movement and some of the loyalist paramilitary elements into the process by allowing them to hold one view about the long-term position of Northern Ireland—in the republicans' case, that they would like it to be part of a united Ireland—while participating in a democratic process in Northern Ireland through devolved institutions. The solution was never neat and tidy, which is why the Democratic Unionist party and, in particular, the right hon. Member for North Antrim (Rev. Ian Paisley) had reservations. They were opposed to the process and did not like the idea of constructive ambiguity, but we would not have got the Good Friday agreement without that degree of constructive ambiguity.

http://www.publications.parliament.u...t/60208-16.htm

He clearly meant to say "constructive ambiguity" (approved Kissinger jargon) not "obstructive ambiguity"- one of the most choice and informative Freudian slips I've ever seen.

This is a clear admission that Sinn Fein was enabled to make a false promise of a United Ireland, while the legal process was restricted to a devolved Northern Ireland framework.

[riposte]

Are you claiming it was ? No point in blaming me - I didn't put the process together...

Cactus ..... if we are going to talk nonsense ..... we might as well talk total nonsense.

[Trow]

I give it to the Psychiatrist who mapped it all out. [GFA]

Like a drug [Good Fecking Amphetamine] it was administered to a Nation in need of a fix.

I think alot of people voted in Euphoric mood only to find out all too late that crucial issues such as Policing and Justice still to this day do not adhere to basic Human Rights standards.

Anyway, for those still caught up in the ''rush'' of it all and sense multiple orgasm at the sight of smiling faces, handshakes and historical events i hope it won't come as an anti climax to learn that nothing has changed, you were time warped and brain fucked.

Cactus once said somewhere when analysing as she does. ''It does feel at times like someone is reaching in and massaging the brain.''

Is'nt the GFA just a picture show?

[bernadette]

I give it to the Psychiatrist who mapped it all out. [GFA]

Like a drug [Good Fecking Amphetamine] it was administered to a Nation in need of a fix.

I think alot of people voted in Euphoric mood only to find out all too late that crucial issues such as Policing and Justice still to this day do not adhere to basic Human Rights standards.

Anyway, for those still caught up in the ''rush'' of it all and sense multiple orgasm at the sight of smiling faces, handshakes and historical events i hope it won't come as an anti climax to learn that nothing has changed, you were time warped.

Cactus once said somewhere when analysing as she does. ''It does feel at times like someone is reaching in and massaging the brain.''

Is'nt the GFA just a picture show?

What do you mean "Policing and Justice do not adhere to basic human rights standards"?

[Trow]

What do you mean "Policing and Justice do not adhere to basic human rights standards"?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showthread.php?t=6731

[fluffybiscuits]

When you hear that, what do you think of?

Masked "men of violence" no doubt.

That's a carefully cultivated reaction.

The term has been cleverly used by the powers that be - and occasionally by people who should know better and have more cop on - to tar all those who subscribe to a brand of republicanism different to that of Sinn Féin as supporters of ONH, RIRA, CIRA etc (RAAD now too) when that simply isn't the case. Many people labeled "dissident republicans" have no time for armed struggle - take eirigí for example, in my experience the majority of members don't think armed action is the way to go, and the party itself, afaik (open to correction) advocates exclusively political methods.

With the phrase "dissident republicans" the public instantly have little time for the arguments of these people as thanks to that phrase they have been incorrectly placed in a carefully cultivated by manipulation "ra head" pigeon hole in ones mind.

A "dissident republican protest"? The average person instantly feels compelled to support whatever is being protested against.

There are examples of this clever manipulation littered all over the media.

Like this for example;


http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0703/arr...publicans.html

And then these two;

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Dis...122149764.html


http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...-16000505.html

It's not right.

This agenda became fully clear to me a few days ago when I was browsing in a bookshop and spied the spine of this book;
Dissidents - Irish Republican Women 1923 - 41

I read the first word and assumed it was a book about the RIRA etc and pondered why I leaped to such a conclusion.

I'd ask posters here not to play a part in this agenda and forgo using the phrase. (Before someone searches my posts I'll admit that I try not to use it but as with all things I fail occasionally).

Any opinions? Maybe I've just finally gone mad?

Lot of thought gone into that post SgD and will reply in kind. It is something that I will be honest never ever struck me to think of. Your examples though perfectly illustrate the bias that exists in a lot of the media and exemplifies how some media outlets through the use of such language can change the opinion of the public. Such words could be percieved to be weasel words in that they are used exclusively in one context but then become associated solely with that context (I hope I am explaining myself correctly!). I'll be more mindful next time when I do read an article which cites such phrases but its not a phrase I will use myself or ever have done. Amazing when you take a step back and analyse the use of such language and how it can influence thought in the public ...