Kept Catholics - 50 Years of the Chieftains

[Count Bobulescu]

I would ask you to fully explain, or else withdraw the "kept catholics" thing.

I have listened on and off to the Chieftains for many years, and they seem to be prefectly legitimate traditional musicians in the tradition of O Riada and Ceoltas (or are they "kept" as well?)

Ah now, a bit of iconoclastic shin kicking never did anyone any harm, or so “they” say.
I read the Kept Catholic term as talented people underperforming in order to maintain an image that plays to a lower common denominator, like Oirish America, when they are capable of much better.

With the breadth of stuff they cover there’s bound to be good and bad. It can’t all be above average. As I noted above, their studio stuff is pretty good. It’s when they get in front of a camera or live audience that it degenerates into an element of paddy whackery in order to help create a visual spectacle, and that was one part of what KB was commenting on.

[Phelan]

"Oirish America"??? What's that - Eugene O'Neill, Paul O'Dwyer?, Spencer Tracy? The Dropkick Murphys? I suspect the stereotype exists solely in others minds.

And the Chieftains are not fkn Foster and Allen! When they play in the States it is normally at 'high cultural' venues. Another thing to bear in mind with their 50th anniversary is that these are men in their late 70s and 80s! They are entitled to have a bit of crack are they not in the way that oul fellas do? They are not alternative comedians!

[Count Bobulescu]

Oirish America? Just look at the YouTube vid KB posted, the guys from Philly, they're Oirish America.

[Richardbouvet]

Bobulescu, it might be better for the Chieftains to err in the direction of Oirishry (if indeed they do) rather than in the other direction, namely taking themselves too seriously and becoming complete bores, like some trad artists I have seen.

Friday afternoon postscript - Best album title by a member of the chieftains: "Derek Bell plays with himself." Really!

[homer]

the "kept Catholic" reference has still to be explained.

Any band that can entertain over 50 years must be doing something right.

at least they dont go around in dark glasses telling world leaders how to save the world

[Kev Bar]

the "kept Catholic" reference has still to be explained.

Any band that can entertain over 50 years must be doing something right.

at least they dont go around in dark glasses telling world leaders how to save the world

The Count has explained what I was getting at with the notion of "Kept Catholic."

I still want to know why a band member interrupts another member's solo when it is starting to shimmer with perfection by indulging in a cheap joke of looking at his watch.

Why belittle your own beauty?


The audience is asked to turn off mobile phones as a mark of respect for performers and to avoid irritating the audience.

And the Chieftains build a mobile phone interuption into their act.

As for throwing what looks like a coin at Bell during his piano solo
Can't have a fella getting carried away by beauty, can't let him weave sonic magic there in front of you.
No. We won't show respect for the sublime.
When there's a cheap laugh going with the base.


That act of "coin throwing" didn't take place the night I saw them in the Grand Canal but the other circus act distractions did.

The lack of appreciation for the possibilities of their artistic beauty - or their attempt to pander to what they deemed the limits of their audience - seemed to be a deliberate aesthetic dumbing down, a doffing of the cap to the Master of mediocrity and lucre.

A taming of the vision if you like.
A decommisioning of potency.
A surrender to stereotype.


There was a kitsch pandering to that whole JFK Irish American prosperous optimism that always seems to come wrapped in a uniform.

The Irish American astronaut who came on stage to return the flute she borrowed and took to the space station to play and keep her company was drenched in the iconography of this defence spending related progress for which the Chieftains provided the perfect soundtrack.

All JFK visit euphoria and lush escapist soundscapes of a simplified world.

A world where communists were bad and orthodontists were good.


What would those of you, who rise in what seems like a blind defence, say if someone from the audience was to undermine the group's act with such crass acts.

Then could you tell me why the group undermine the integrity of their own art during live performance.

I have to admit, I have never seen he who goes around in "dark glasses telling world leaders how to save the world" do anything that undermines the poignancy of his group's performance.

Jesus we have enough charlatanism in our political sphere without our artistic one embracing it too.

[Sam Lord]

I have to admit, I have never seen he who goes around in "dark glasses telling world leaders how to save the world" do anything that undermines the poignancy of his group's performance.

I would have thought that generally being a tosser would well serve to undermine the poignancy of performance of any group you were involved with.

[Kev Bar]

Whatever about saving the world, this was just sent this on the subject of saving the few bob

"There once was a Mitchell named Joni, who had an Agreement with Sony. She lost a fair mint when she read the fine print: All proceeds to Paddy Maloney!"

[homer]

Ah now, a bit of iconoclastic shin kicking never did anyone any harm, or so “they” say.
I read the Kept Catholic term as talented people underperforming in order to maintain an image that plays to a lower common denominator, like Oirish America, when they are capable of much better.

With the breadth of stuff they cover there’s bound to be good and bad. It can’t all be above average. As I noted above, their studio stuff is pretty good. It’s when they get in front of a camera or live audience that it degenerates into an element of paddy whackery in order to help create a visual spectacle, and that was one part of what KB was commenting on.

.

You have not explained the "kept Catholic" jibe. Please now withdraw it.

[homer]

The Count has explained what I was getting at with the notion of "Kept Catholic."

I still want to know why a band member interrupts another member's solo when it is starting to shimmer with perfection by indulging in a cheap joke of looking at his watch.

Why belittle your own beauty?


The audience is asked to turn off mobile phones as a mark of respect for performers and to avoid irritating the audience.

And the Chieftains build a mobile phone interuption into their act.

As for throwing what looks like a coin at Bell during his piano solo
Can't have a fella getting carried away by beauty, can't let him weave sonic magic there in front of you.
No. We won't show respect for the sublime.
When there's a cheap laugh going with the base.


That act of "coin throwing" didn't take place the night I saw them in the Grand Canal but the other circus act distractions did.

The lack of appreciation for the possibilities of their artistic beauty - or their attempt to pander to what they deemed the limits of their audience - seemed to be a deliberate aesthetic dumbing down, a doffing of the cap to the Master of mediocrity and lucre.

A taming of the vision if you like.
A decommisioning of potency.
A surrender to stereotype.


There was a kitsch pandering to that whole JFK Irish American prosperous optimism that always seems to come wrapped in a uniform.

The Irish American astronaut who came on stage to return the flute she borrowed and took to the space station to play and keep her company was drenched in the iconography of this defence spending related progress for which the Chieftains provided the perfect soundtrack.

All JFK visit euphoria and lush escapist soundscapes of a simplified world.

A world where communists were bad and orthodontists were good.


What would those of you, who rise in what seems like a blind defence, say if someone from the audience was to undermine the group's act with such crass acts.

Then could you tell me why the group undermine the integrity of their own art during live performance.

I have to admit, I have never seen he who goes around in "dark glasses telling world leaders how to save the world" do anything that undermines the poignancy of his group's performance.

Jesus we have enough charlatanism in our political sphere without our artistic one embracing it too.

Chill out there. These are just entertainers, not some sort of sacred rite

[Baron von Biffo]

"Oirish America"??? What's that - Eugene O'Neill, Paul O'Dwyer?, Spencer Tracy? The Dropkick Murphys? I suspect the stereotype exists solely in others minds.

And the Chieftains are not fkn Foster and Allen! When they play in the States it is normally at 'high cultural' venues. Another thing to bear in mind with their 50th anniversary is that these are men in their late 70s and 80s! They are entitled to have a bit of crack are they not in the way that oul fellas do? They are not alternative comedians!

'High culture venues' in America - Places where patrons are required to wear trousers and leave their guns at reception?

[Sam Lord]

'High culture venues' in America - Places where patrons are required to wear trousers and leave their guns at reception?

They are requested to wear their trousers over their ass ...

[Kev Bar]

Chill out there. These are just entertainers, not some sort of sacred rite

The reaction of some to my comments on the group would lead me to believe that the Chieftains are to quite a number of Paddies what cows are to Hare Krishnas.

And once again, it's a shame to see people let idle entertainment reign where genuine talent, even brilliance, should flourish.

[Shaadi]

The kept Catholic jibe is just the OPs way of saying he thinks that the Chieftains backward old Catholic/Nationalist Ireland mindset is suffocating the full expression of their talents. It's probably a flawed assumption, they engage in the bit of messing because they want to, not because their audience demands it or that they're somehow kept Catholics.

The ****-retentive attitude of the Disciples of Nietzsche who insist that the pursuit of excellence is the be all and end all is far more suffocating than a few old lads engaging in a bit of voluntary arseing about on stage .

[Kev Bar]

.

You have not explained the "kept Catholic" jibe. Please now withdraw it.

Why?

Why should something be withdrawn because you don't understand it?

Or don't like it?

Is your comprehension or approval a prerequisite for the existence of others' opinions?

Very 50s Catholic Church.

We'll have none of that

Seriously "withdraw" an opinion.

What class of aggressive thought policing lies behind your demand for "withdrawal"

Would you not be better off expressing what your problem is with the view rather than stamping your ideological feet and demanding its disapperance.

Let's not forget that we are talking about a review of a concert....not the deployment of a tank division.