"The IRA 1956-69: Rethinking the Republic" by Matt Treacy

[Sam Lord]

Sam, the CP were infiltrating the IRA in the 1920 and 1930s.

How can you infiltrate an organisation that you are welcome to be a member of? You are entirely ignoring the historical record. The relationship between the communists and the IRA in the 1920's and the early 1930's appears to have been an entirely fluid one. There seems to have been no issue over an IRA volunteer taking part in whatever communist formations were around at the various times and there appears to have been no issue with communists joining the IRA.

They even appear to have done stuff jointly. Hanley records a meeting betwen IRA officers and communists in 1929 to discuss the establishment of a Workers Defence Corps to take an active part in strikes.

I think your approach is really bad history and just political prejudice wrapped up as history without even studying the period.

Are you going to make a serious argument regarding "communist infliltration" of the IRA in this period or are you just going to keep on asserting it?

[Sam Lord]

Bty, I think I think communists and the IRA 1921-1969 would make a fantastic thesis for any young history scholar out there.

[Sam Lord]

I beleive that just as the CP's own records confirm Treacy's position regarding RJ and AC's membership, they will also elucidate that issue!

As for RJ's post facto comments, you must bear in mind that he was member of Communist Party in Ireland (IWL/IWP/CPI) and in Britain (CPGB) for 30 years. Hardly a casual arrangement!

Why are you so entirely fixated on membership. It is only one small piece of the puzzle. In itself it proves nothing.

Why can you not elaborate on the politics that Johnston was articulating in Republican movement at the time? Is this not important from a scholarly point of view?

And with regard to his post facto comments - are they no surviving documents that he drafted at the time that you can point to to boost your case.? I read reference yesterday to a document he drafted for the republican movement which analysed the various political currents, parties etc. in Ireland at the time. Have you read this? What does he say about the IWL in it? Is it an analysis that would benefit the IWL? This is the type of scholarship we need.

[WorldbyStorm]

"Sam, the CP were infiltrating the IRA in the 1920 and 1930s. <b>That was the reason for the ban.</b> I beleive that just as the CP's own records confirm Treacy's position regarding RJ and AC's membership, they will also elucidate that issue!

You are right, the IRA was not 'anti communist', it was anti CP. For same reason that any 'host' organisation will be hostile to infiltrators."

That's simply incorrect. And Sam Lord is right in their analysis. Actually I'll expand on that. The Moss Twomey papers have the 1933 Convention minutes which are explicit that it wasn't a ban because of 'infiltration', which would have made no sense given the shared historiies of the organisations involved in the preceding year (adn to be honest the IRA supplanted the CP in numerous areas as the point of contact with international communism), but to stop any accusations that the IRA was communist. That's a radically different reason to the one presented above.

Actually, I'll go a bit further. The level of cooperation and more in the 1920s and early 1930s is of a level that whatever AC and RJ wanted they could only have dreamt of such outcomes, and even in the SFWP/WP days the relationship was nowhere near as close as that seen in that 20s/30s period.

[Sam Lord]

Interesting biography:

Michael (Mick) Fitzpatrick (1893 – 8 October 1968) was an Irish republican, chief of staff of the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and Clann na Poblachta politician.

Born in Wexford in 1893 he was one of the 'driving forces' behind the anti-Treaty IRA in Dublin during the Irish Civil War. He was briefly the Officer Commanding of the IRA's Dublin Brigade and was interned in 1923. During this period he was also involved with the first Communist Party of Ireland.

Fitzpatrick was a full-time official of the Grocers' trade union and secretary of its social club at the Banba Hall in Dublin's Parnell Square. He also managed the Balalaika Ballroom and restaurant in the same area.

He was the key figure in IRA contacts with the Soviet Union during the late 1920s. In 1927 he attended the first International Congress of the Friends of Soviet Russia (FOSR) in Moscow. In 1928 he helped establish an Irish section of the FOSR. During 1929 he was involved in launching the Irish Labour Defence League and the Workers' Revolutionary Party of Ireland. He was also involved in Comhairle na Poblachta, a body set up the same year to heal the rift between the military and political anti-Treaty forces in Ireland. He visited the Soviet Union again in 1932.

Fitzpatrick chaired the 1933 IRA General Army Convention (GAC). At the 1934 GAC he disagreed with the call for a Republican Congress and remained within the IRA. His union was involved in a strike with O'Mara's Bacon Shops in late 1934 in which the IRA intervened violently. During 1935 he was involved in the IRA's intervention in the Dublin transport strike.

In 1936 he was an unsuccessful candidate for Cumann Poblachta na hÉireann, a political party set up by the IRA. Fitzpatrick succeeded Tom Barry as chief of staff in 1937, only to be ousted by Seán Russell at the 1938 GAC.

He was involved in the launch of the Clann na Poblachta political party in 1946 and was a member of its national executive. At the 1948 general election, he was elected as a TD for Dublin North–West,[1] winning 2,395 votes (10.3%). At the 1951 general election, he received a meagre 458 votes (1.9%) and lost his seat.

Wiki

[C. Flower]

Interesting biography:


Wiki

Are there equivalent books to Treacy's on the IRA covering the period up to the 1950s?

[Sam Lord]

Are there equivalent books to Treacy's on the IRA covering the period up to the 1950s?

Hanley covers the period 1926-36 very well. It is based on the Moss Twomey papers as has been pointed out on this thread. I'm not sure what else is out there.

There is of course the Tim Pat Coogan book but I'm sure many more sources have become available since that was published.

[WorldbyStorm]

The biography of Ruairí Ó Brádaigh is excellent if a tiny bit slanted on the entire period 40s 50s onwards. But well worth reading. Henry Patterson's book on The Politics of Illusion is interesting albeit slanted in the opposite direction. Sean Swan's book Official Irish Republicanism, 1962 to 1972 is excellent. And the Lost Revolution is very good too in addition to Sam Lord's recommendation of Hanley's earlier book.

It's interesting. I'm trying to think of a good individual work on the Border Campaign and SF in the 50s.

[Dr.Nightdub]

It's interesting. I'm trying to think of a good individual work on the Border Campaign and SF in the 50s.

Haven't read it, but there's one called "Soldiers of Folly" by Barry Flynn - €12.99 on Amazon, which isn't bad for a hardback

[WorldbyStorm]

Ah yeah, I'd read a review of that. I think it was pretty good. Useful as an addition to the RÓB one.

[Sam Lord]

The ban on communist membership of the IRA introduced in 1933 appears to have been lifted by Tom Barry when he became Chief of Staff of the IRA in 1937.

[Sam Lord]

Hot off the (self published) press:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/matt-treacy...-20438728.html

Should be good for a laugh.

[C. Flower]

Hot off the (self published) press:

http://www.lulu.com/shop/matt-treacy...-20438728.html

Should be good for a laugh.

Some very good books are self-published.

This looks interesting too -

Four Courts Press are delighted to announce the publication of Irish Socialist Republicanism, 1909-36 by Adrian Grant.

This book examines Irish socialist republicanism in the early part of the 20th century. Previous studies of the subject have pointed to the left wing of the IRA as the prime instigator of the movement. Here, socialist republicanism is examined in detail from the perspective of the Labour movement alongside the IRA and other republican groups for the first time. The result is an enlightening account of the many connections and alliances that existed between republicans, socialists, communists and others. The reader is provided with a narrative that explains the many twists and turns in both mainstream and radical Irish politics in the period.

Adrian Grant holds a PhD from UU, Magee College, and is the editor of the online history magazine, Scoláire Staire.

http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/201...-adrian-grant/

[Apjp]

Where's the IRA when you need them.

[Phelan]

Bty, I think I think communists and the IRA 1921-1969 would make a fantastic thesis for any young history scholar out there.

Looks like Treacy got to that one first as well!

I wonder will this one lead to hissy fits and threats of legal action