Post Spain - Should Ireland's Bailout be Renegotiated ?

[C. Flower]

France24 is reporting that an Irish Government spokesperson has stated the Government wishes to renegotiate Ireland's EFSF terms, following the proposal of a Spanish "no strings" bailout.

http://www.france24.com/en/20120609-...gotiated_match

There is a meeting on June 21st at which, supposedly, the Irish Government will raise this. Just this once, will they tell us what they propose to say in advance ?

Any suggestions on what exactly the Irish Government should put forward ?

http://www.france24.com/en/20120609-...gotiated_match

[Ephilant]

Have a chat with Tsipras first, because that meeting on June 21st is going to be seriously dominated by the results of the Greek elections on June 17th. and there is every chance, especially going by the "running polls" here in Greece that we will have a majority SYRIZA government, meaning a major headache for the EU. If the Irish government could grow some balls in the very short week ahead, and close ranks with others in the same boat, they might learn a trick or two and possibly even get somewhere. they should know by now that trying to be teachers pet isn't working. they're not even getting a pat a the head anymore...

[C. Flower]

Yes, I think we should take this as an opportunity to completely rethink what we are doing, and look at how debt write down has been handled elsewhere.

But as Michael Noonan has told us that countries that haven't ratified the ESM can't get funding, perhaps the Spanish deal will fall through.

[Ephilant]

Yes, I think we should take this as an opportunity to completely rethink what we are doing, and look at how debt write down has been handled elsewhere.

But as Michael Noonan has told us that countries that haven't ratified the ESM can't get funding, perhaps the Spanish deal will fall through.

You believe Michael Noonan?

[C. Flower]

You believe Michael Noonan?

[Shaadi]

Have a chat with Tsipras first, because that meeting on June 21st is going to be seriously dominated by the results of the Greek elections on June 17th. and there is every chance, especially going by the "running polls" here in Greece that we will have a majority SYRIZA government, meaning a major headache for the EU. If the Irish government could grow some balls in the very short week ahead, and close ranks with others in the same boat, they might learn a trick or two and possibly even get somewhere. they should know by now that trying to be teachers pet isn't working. they're not even getting a pat a the head anymore...

The Irish Govt runs the country for the Irish Business/Banking elite, the top civil servants and any group of vested interests that're connected to them.

Unless those groups are threatened it's Irish Govt policy to do what they're told by Europe. A simple dirty look from their EU buddies is enough to put them off trying to do anything for the country.

Think Vichy France for the mentality of our Govt, this particular Govt is not only treasonous by cowardice but by nature. There's an anti-national hangover from history that permeates their thought process.

So there's no point in anyone holding out any hope of the Irish Govt or people threatening the EU status quo, or at least not until the money/credit runs out..

[Holly]

There is no Finne Gwael politician able to negotiate. Neither the talent nor the motivation is present in that party.

[DCon]

I don't think we/they have an argument.

Spain are (allegedly) getting the same conditions on the funds from the EFSF that we pay on the funds we get from the EFSF/IMF.

The difference is that Sain held out long enough for their banks to get the cheap LTRO money and use this to buy Spanish debt, and therefore they can claim there is not a sovereign funding problem.

According to Michael Noonan, the Irish finance minister, said Spain will pay the same interest rates as those countries already bailed out by the European Union and International Monetary Fund for funds it will receive to recapitalise its banks.

The Eurogroup said the funds could come from either from the eurozone's temporary rescue fund, the EFSF, or the permanent mechanism, the ESM, which is due to start next month.

EU sources said there was a preference to channel money to Spain through the ESM, rather than the EFSF. Under the ESM, an approval rate of 90pc or less is needed to trigger aid, and the fund also has more flexibility in how it operates.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...d-support.html

[C. Flower]

I don't think we/they have an argument.

Spain are (allegedly) getting the same conditions on the funds from the EFSF that we pay on the funds we get from the EFSF/IMF.

The difference is that Spain held out long enough for their banks to get the cheap LTRO money and use this to buy Spanish debt, and therefore they can claim there is not a sovereign funding problem.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...d-support.html

The political difference is that Ireland's budget and financial measures are tightly controlled and overseen by "The Troika" (random neo liberal economist/s).

[DCon]

The political difference is that Ireland's budget and financial measures are tightly controlled and overseen by "The Troika" (random neo liberal economist/s).

For now.

Spain will be in a troika package too when the extent of the bank losses are known

[Slim Buddha]

There is no Finne Gwael politician able to negotiate. Neither the talent nor the motivation is present in that party.

A party of limited schoolteachers

[DCon]

Maybe Spain's deal is not so good after all

In return for subsidized rates, Spain will cede sovereignty over its financial system, but also lose tax sovereignty, contrary to what the Government said yesterday.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/detail...n-bailout-loan

[Slim Buddha]

Have a chat with Tsipras first, because that meeting on June 21st is going to be seriously dominated by the results of the Greek elections on June 17th. and there is every chance, especially going by the "running polls" here in Greece that we will have a majority SYRIZA government, meaning a major headache for the EU. If the Irish government could grow some balls in the very short week ahead, and close ranks with others in the same boat, they might learn a trick or two and possibly even get somewhere. they should know by now that trying to be teachers pet isn't working. they're not even getting a pat a the head anymore...

But since Kenny and Noonan are teachers, the teachers pet "strategy" is the only one they understand. There is nobody like Alexis Tsipras in the Dail. And balls will not be grown in Ireland, certainly not before June 21st.

[DCon]

For now.

Spain will be in a troika package too when the extent of the bank losses are known

didn't even take that long

Spain faces supervision by international lenders after a bailout for its banks agreed at the weekend, EU and German officials said on Monday, contradicting Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy who had insisted the cash came without such strings.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...85908Z20120611

[C. Flower]

I'm hearing a lot of feeling from Greece that they want the level of "monitoring" that Spain will get.

Spain has a government that is gung ho to make cuts anyway, and also already has astronomic unemployment. But so far, they have not had the finger-shaking treatment that the Irish and Greek governments were treated to when they were told they needed a Programme.