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Thread: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

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    Thumbs down The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    23 children have died in the care of the State in the last 10 years. No reports have been published. The responsible body, the HSE is acknowledged to be grossly overstaffed as a result of actions by Mary Harney. The last benchmarking report pointed out that some Managers did not know what they job duties were supposed to be.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...256098307.html

    Which Ministers will resign ?

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    23 children have died in the care of the State in the last 10 years. No reports have been published. The responsible body, the HSE is acknowledged to be grossly overstaffed as a result of actions by Mary Harney. The last benchmarking report pointed out that some Managers did not know what they job duties were supposed to be.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...256098307.html

    Which Ministers will resign ?

    None. Children are a real nuisance in this country - and have been since the foundation of the State. It used to be the State and the Religious Orders destroying the lives of children now it's the State and the HSE who are carrying on the destruction.

    FACT, Many children who were placed into Residential Institutes were never heard of again, they never came home. It was as if they had been spirited away, vanished from the face of the earth & this indeed is most odd as it states in the "KENNEDY REPORT" published in 1970 that 238 children absconded from these hell-holes over a period of 19 years & were never traced or found at all - not even by their families or friends , this is in itself most strange as the majority of these Residential Institutes were so remote that it beggars belief how small children could escape, remain at large & ultimately never be discovered !!!

    BACKGROUND:
    Part of the Children's Act 1908 - 1947 states:

    "Any child that absconds & is still at large for six days, means a report must be made to the local Garda station, Education Department, School Inspectorate & a copy of this report must be kept by each of the above mentioned. The Institute where the child has absconded from must also keep a record".

    Needless to say most of the missing files relating to the Institutions cover the period investigated by the Child Abuse Commission. What a Surprise !

    That said, I have seen official Gardai reports relating to my time as a child 'guest' of the State, now these reports didn't relate to any absconding on my part - and I absconded 23 times (recaptured 22 times) nor did they relate to any incidents, and there were many (none of a criminal nature on my part I must add) while I was 'out on licence' - NO - these Garda reports (officially stamped) actually referred to the super-human efforts the Gardai made in pursuing (yes PURSUING) my father to gather 2/6 (a half a crown) every week towards his contribution to the Religious Order which was 'taking care' of me. Over 13 years they were able to gather £62 and 15 shillings.

    So it comes as no surprise to me that the State is still being careless with our children ... actually I am a bit surprised because of all the Government Ministers I've met since the Ryan Report Barry Andrews is the one that really impressed me !

    I think it's time we redefined (or defined) the family in the Constitution - to add uncles, aunts, grandparents, & siblings as primary carers along with Parent/s. I think care should be given to the blood relatives and only allow primary care to the State/HSE if none of those options are available / viable.
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    I agree you about the blood relations, but I also think that in some cases a nice "home help" for the parent might do it, and some parent training. A woman I know was sent on parent training and it transformed her life. She passed on a few child management tricks to me that I was glad to know.

    Why is the Minister powerless ?

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    Smile Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    I agree you about the blood relations, but I also think that in some cases a nice "home help" for the parent might do it, and some parent training. A woman I know was sent on parent training and it transformed her life. She passed on a few child management tricks to me that I was glad to know.

    Why is the Minister powerless ?
    A kind of a mentor for the parents and or child ? I remember suggesting once, at a Community Development meeting in 1994, that along with adult education a Parenting Course should also be offered and the roof nearly caved in on me!

    I should state that the cheerleader opposing my suggesting happened to be a nun in mufti ! Unknown to the nun though I had sounded out people in the area - most of them parents themselves - and my suggestion actually came originally from them. The outcome though showed how powerless these people actually were as their voices were ignored and the nun won the day.

    She had a few more victories after that before her whole world caved in on her!
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Some family members of children who died in State "Care" have expressed their anger at the failure of the HSE to consult them and the failure to publish reports.
    There are lots of other Tracey Fays and Danny Talbots and we're not going to sit back and wait seven years like the Fay family for a report," Danny's aunt Donna Lamb told the Irish Independent.
    Tracey's uncle said it was a "scandal" that the report into the death of his niece took six years to complete and had only now come into the public domain.
    "In the eight years since Tracey died, quite a lot of kids have died," Damien Fay said last night.
    "Barry Andrews claimed last year that it would be published within a month and that didn't happen. All of a sudden he's now concerned about us because the report was leaked but who is he to speak on behalf of the family when we had no input? It's ridiculous.
    "What happened Tracey is still happening today and it's an abuse of the child by the State."
    Responding to the families' comments, Mr Shatter last night said: "The suppression of reports must end now."
    He added: "There is an absolute necessity to publish all the reports without further delay. It is essential the HSE stops hiding behind the pretext that reports are being delayed for publication because they need to contact families."
    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/an...y-2089545.html

    Shane Dunphy, a former child care worker described a culture in the Health Boards and HSE or writing off children considered to be "lifers" with no effort being made to change their situation.

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Summary reports into the reviews of the deaths of two teenagers in State care have finally been published. It is more than a year after the Minister for Children said their release was imminent. Tracey Fay, 18, and 17-year-old David Foley died from drug overdoses. The reports found that the HSE had failed adequately to address their care, protection and accommodation needs.

    RTE News
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    For a country which has been hysterical on the subject of the rights of a zygote we certainly don't seem to do as well after children are born.

    Its a pity half the energy that has gone into imbuing a zygote with a halo wasn't spent checking how both religious and state institutions were run where children who could be frightened or hurt or worse.

    Arsebackwards as usual.

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    For a country which has been hysterical on the subject of the rights of a zygote we certainly don't seem to do as well after children are born.

    Its a pity half the energy that has gone into imbuing a zygote with a halo wasn't spent checking how both religious and state institutions were run where children who could be frightened or hurt or worse.

    Arsebackwards as usual.
    It's the sanctity of life - but not life as we know it. Speaking of expending energy I've just received a batch of Garda Siochana reports covering the years 1958 to 1967 containing communications between Gardai stations in Kilkenny, Waterford and Tipperary and the Sisters of Charity in Kilkenny and the Rosminians in Clonmel. Both Religious Orders were chasing my father for a half-a-crown in parental monies, which he was supposed to be paying weekly, and were asking the Gardai in those counties to report to them any sighting of my father. He had a debt of £65 1 shilling and 1 penny - and these Religious Orders wanted to collect that money. Eventually I was put out on licence to 'earn' that money.

    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

    Ireland never has been a place for children.
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Don't do drugs kids.

    I know that this is something people can get angry about and such, but in reality it's of so little significance it hurts me to think about it.
    Lickarse.
    The cake is a lie!

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew49 View Post
    It's the sanctity of life - but not life as we know it. Speaking of expending energy I've just received a batch of Garda Siochana reports covering the years 1958 to 1967 containing communications between Gardai stations in Kilkenny, Waterford and Tipperary and the Sisters of Charity in Kilkenny and the Rosminians in Clonmel. Both Religious Orders were chasing my father for a half-a-crown in parental monies, which he was supposed to be paying weekly, and were asking the Gardai in those counties to report to them any sighting of my father. He had a debt of £65 1 shilling and 1 penny - and these Religious Orders wanted to collect that money. Eventually I was put out on licence to 'earn' that money.

    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose!

    Ireland never has been a place for children.
    Is it a post-famine thing, do you think ? Or just the sheer weight of numbers? Families of 20 children are not really natural I don't think.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by C Flower View Post
    Is it a post-famine thing, do you think ? Or just the sheer weight of numbers? Families of 20 children are not really natural I don't think.
    Archbigot McQuaid refused to sanction the building of houses with only 3 bedrooms as the houses wouldn't be large enough to accommodate 'good catholic families'. Mcquaid did want the land for UCD though!
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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/f...ay-455116.html

    Shatter is on the case again. People should be named.
    “ We cannot withdraw our cards from the game. Were we as silent and mute as stones, our very passivity would be an act. ”
    — Jean-Paul Sartre

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Con O'Sullivan View Post
    For a country which has been hysterical on the subject of the rights of a zygote we certainly don't seem to do as well after children are born.

    Its a pity half the energy that has gone into imbuing a zygote with a halo wasn't spent checking how both religious and state institutions were run where children who could be frightened or hurt or worse.

    Arsebackwards as usual.
    The truth is we don't care. We don't care about unborn children being killed, we care about ourselves not being involved in it. That is all. there are many Irish children aborted in the UK every year, Irish women are more likely to terminate than an English woman. Nobody puts any effort into stopping this because they don't care. Ironically it is the pro abortion people that do most for these women and probably the only people that actually stop some of these abortions.

    We also dont care about child abuses. The left loves jumping on the bandwagon when it comes to the church abuses 30 years ago as it allows them to vent their secular spleen. If anyone was that worried about it they would go out on the streets and find some current victim and try help them or help a family struggling to keep things together today. We did nothing in 1970 and we are doing nothing now. Write another report and file it away.

    As long as we are not to blame or involved you can have as many incestuous affairs as you like, as many abortions as you like and let as many abandoned children die as you like. Just blame someone else.

    The same people that were going mad about abortion were the very ones that covered up abuse and rape. The same ones that made it impossible for a young mother to exist in her community with a baby if unmarried. Very Christian. Very Irish.
    Last edited by Xray; 23-04-2010 at 09:59 PM.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    I worked in the Child Protection services for a mere 6 months - until I could stick it no longer. There's that much bureaucracy and red tape that more time and energy are spent on keeping files updated than acutal work on the ground with kids and families. The number of sick/leave days that social workers take is phenomenal - no wonder you can never get a social worker when you need one, and at that time they all clocked off early on a Friday - not sure if that has changed now.

    Even if a child landed on their doorstep at 3pm on a Friday, the social workers had no place to take them. Most of the residential units were closed down with the new drive to get kids into foster care - except that the foster places weren't available and foster assessments were wayyyyyy too slow. Sometimes using family supports was useful, but often the types of abuse that children suffer in their own homes, from alcohol abuse or sexual abuse, are indemic in the extended family too.

    Foster parents too have a lot to contend with. They are not equipped, trained or experienced enough to deal with very challenging, very disturbed children. Foster parents also have their own kids to worry about and the effects that a severely damaged kid can have on their own family, eg drugs, allegations.

    Neither can we dump kids into unsupervised hostels and expect them to survive. The HSE did away with the group homes - but I think they are still very much needed, with high intensity levels of staffing of highly trained care staff. Doesn't come cheap, but how much is a child's life worth?
    Last edited by Xray; 24-04-2010 at 08:07 AM.

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    Default Re: The Deaths of Children in Care in Ireland

    Quote Originally Posted by Murra View Post
    I worked in the Child Protection services for a mere 6 months - until I could stick it no longer. There's that much bureaucracy and red tape that more time and energy are spent on keeping files updated than acutal work on the ground with kids and families. The number of sick/leave days that social workers take is phenomenal - no wonder you can never get a social worker when you need one, and at that time they all clocked off early on a Friday - not sure if that has changed now.

    Even if a child landed on their doorstep at 3pm on a Friday, the social workers had no place to take them. Most of the residential units were closed down with the new drive to get kids into foster care - except that the foster places weren't available and foster assessments were wayyyyyy too slow. Sometimes using family supports was useful, but often the types of abuse that children suffer in their own homes, from alcohol abuse or sexual abuse, are indemic in the extended family too.

    Foster parents too have a lot to contend with. They are not equipped, trained or experienced enough to deal with very challenging, very disturbed children. Foster parents also have their own kids to worry about and the effects that a severely damaged kid can have on their own family, eg drugs, allegations.

    Neither can we dump kids into unsupervised hostels and expect them to survive. The HSE did away with the group homes - but I think they are still very much needed, with high intensity levels of staffing of highly trained care staff. Doesn't come cheap, but how much is a child's life worth?

    Interesting post. I thought the group houses were a great thing, I knew someone who worked in one. They had a feel or normality but had the safety net there. I think as a society we just don't care. Families here look after their own, if that does not happen you are screwed.

    It is basically the same as the whole health system, it is a very dangerous business if you do not have an advocate. If a child has an advocate they would not be in care in the first place. It will be easy pick out one or two to blame here and move on, I think society needs to think long and hard about this. To think kids that this Republic is minding are on drugs in some crap B and B is a disgrace. The would be better minded by the sex trade, at least they would keep them alive.
    Mr Lenihan said the guarantee was “the cheapest bailout” compared with bank rescues in other countries, including the UK and the US, where “billions and billions of taxpayers’ money are being poured into financial institutions” - October 24 2008

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