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Thread: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

  1. #16
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Tourists do not come to ireland to view islamic art.

    In fact, we could greatly improve our tourist product offering, by selling this islamic art and recycling the money into irish artefacts, that would be a big tourist draw. I know a lot of american tourists who think our tourist offering is weak and needs to be bolstered with more irish attractions. Thats why they come to ireland, to see irish stuff. Its not rocket science.
    If you're gonna put this notional $100M of new money into "Irish Artefacts" what would you plan to buy?
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Count Bobulescu View Post
    If you're gonna put this notional $100M of new money into "Irish Artefacts" what would you plan to buy?
    I havent made a list, as Im not an expert. But there are plenty of professionals and academics, who could reel off a list of this stuff that went overseas, down through the years. We could purchase it back. Fairly easily done, IMO.

    When combined with the cash we could raise from selling off the french impressionist paintings in the national gallery, we could amass quite a pot of cash, for irish acquisitions.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    I havent made a list, as Im not an expert. But there are plenty of professionals and academics, who could reel off a list of this stuff that went overseas, down through the years. We could purchase it back. Fairly easily done, IMO.

    When combined with the cash we could raise from selling off the french impressionist paintings in the national gallery, we could amass quite a pot of cash, for irish acquisitions.
    So, you want to invest 100M of state money in something you are not expert in. Some Libertarian you are, ya boy ya. Will you afford everyone else the same opportunity? An shur weren’t ya blowin steam agin dat oul arty farty culture stuff a while back. I’d be more than happy, to sell some fake Irish artefacts to a fake Irish Libertarian. Gwan witcha outta dat, or I’ll get Gay Byrne after ya!
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Standard juvenile debating tactic of sarcasm and name-calling when you havent a clue how to articulate a counter argument. You lose.
    Sarcasm, yes, and as obvious as possible so you'd notice it. But you've not answered my question: where do you draw the line in determining what counts as Irish? What cultural artefacts can you identify as indigenous and which are foreign? To start with, your use of the English language seems a little to contradict your stated criteria of value.

  5. #20
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    Default Maidir Le: Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Zero, I am sure you are right. The academics we can rely on to know these things.They have devoted years to studying these cultural artifacts.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    I havent made a list, as Im not an expert. But there are plenty of professionals and academics, who could reel off a list of this stuff that went overseas, down through the years. We could purchase it back. Fairly easily done, IMO.

    When combined with the cash we could raise from selling off the french impressionist paintings in the national gallery, we could amass quite a pot of cash, for irish acquisitions.

    But, but, did you not rail against the study of culture on the Open Ireland thread? I am mightily confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Yes. You can learn culture in your own time. Thats why we have libraries and internet. There is no need for compulsory instruction in these things. These things are luxuries, like the national art gallery, that we cannot afford to give away for free but people can choose to pursue at their own expense, if they want.

    Free schooling should be reserved for the teaching of useful skills that enable the individual to be productive and provide for themselves.

  6. #21
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Tourists do not come to ireland to view islamic art.
    Or Chinese. You have a point, up to a point. The Chinese Premier who visited Ireland last month was frogmarched past the door of the Chester Beatty by his hosts without being given five minutes to take a look at the first class Chinese art and photography on display there.

    But on the other hand, this museum is world class and is always full of overseas visitors to Dublin (those who are not here on State visits).

  7. #22
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Why are all you lefties apparantly so supportive of the borgeois art collection of some aristo toff? Isnt it the opposite of your working man values?

    I'll answer those questions for you. You support the funding of this library, because its chock full unionised public sector leeches, on nice cushy little numbers with a free money pension at the end of it. Go on, admit it lefties. Thats the only reason why you support this useless collection of "art".

    The Library is over 90 per cent funded by a grant-in-aid from the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport.
    http://cbl.ie/About-Us/The-Chester-Beatty-Library.aspx

    Yet more proof, that socialism is really about grubby self interest. Selfishness masquerading as noble pursuit of learning. Taxing the low income worker, through scams like income tax and redistributing to toffs with collections of islamic art. Dont make me laugh!

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Why are all you lefties apparantly so supportive of the borgeois art collection of some aristo toff? Isnt it the opposite of your working man values?

    I'll answer those questions for you. You support the funding of this library, because its chock full unionised public sector leeches, on nice cushy little numbers with a free money pension at the end of it. Go on, admit it lefties. Thats the only reason why you support this useless collection of "art".

    http://cbl.ie/About-Us/The-Chester-Beatty-Library.aspx

    Yet more proof, that socialism is really about grubby self interest. Selfishness masquerading as noble pursuit of learning. Taxing the low income worker, through scams like income tax and redistributing to toffs with collections of islamic art. Dont make me laugh!
    If you really want to have a go at us, why don't you point out that Chester Beatty was an arch capitalist resource-grabbing friend of Winston Churchill?

    On another tack, are you not in favour of capitalist entrepreneurs exercising their free will to indulge in charitable acts of patronage ?

    In another thread, you were in favour of charity donations to the arts. The Chester Beatty is exactly that.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    On another tack, are you not in favour of capitalist entrepreneurs exercising their free will to indulge in charitable acts of patronage ?

    In another thread, you were in favour of charity donations to the arts. The Chester Beatty is exactly that.
    Did you not see the quote from their website that I posted? Here it is again.
    The Library is over 90 per cent funded by a grant-in-aid from the Department of Tourism, Culture and Sport.
    That department isnt funded by "charitable acts of patronage". Its funded by taxing the rest of the population into penury.

    You obviously live in the public sector la-la land of free money, just miraculously appearing in your bank account every month. Another dose of austerity will sort you out!

    BRING ON THE CUTS!!
    CUT THEM TO THE BONE!!

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Did you not see the quote from their website that I posted? Here it is again.
    That department isnt funded by "charitable acts of patronage". Its funded by taxing the rest of the population into penury.

    You obviously live in the public sector la-la land of free money, just miraculously appearing in your bank account every month. Another dose of austerity will sort you out!

    BRING ON THE CUTS!!
    CUT THEM TO THE BONE!!
    I did see it. Typically, capitalist entrepreneurs indulge in charitable donations as large tax write offs, foisting the cost or running their art collection or stately home on to the public. The obvious answer is to sequester enough of their ill-gotten gains to pay for the running of the thing.

    The man owned a pile of gold mines. He could have well afforded to endow the cost of maintaining and exhibiting the collection.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    The man owned a pile of gold mines. He could have well afforded to endow the cost of maintaining and exhibiting the collection.
    I agree. So lets stop funding it with taxpayers money then.

    Im glad youve come around and are now arguing in favour of defunding this art collection.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    I agree. So lets stop funding it with taxpayers money then.

    Im glad youve come around and are now arguing in favour of defunding this art collection.
    I'm not. I'm arguing in favour of defunding Chester Beatty's descendents of their unearned wealth

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroWedge View Post
    Why are all you lefties apparantly so supportive of the borgeois art collection of some aristo toff? Isnt it the opposite of your working man values?

    I'll answer those questions for you. You support the funding of this library, because its chock full unionised public sector leeches, on nice cushy little numbers with a free money pension at the end of it. Go on, admit it lefties. Thats the only reason why you support this useless collection of "art".

    http://cbl.ie/About-Us/The-Chester-Beatty-Library.aspx

    Yet more proof, that socialism is really about grubby self interest. Selfishness masquerading as noble pursuit of learning. Taxing the low income worker, through scams like income tax and redistributing to toffs with collections of islamic art. Dont make me laugh!
    Hmmmm. I always wondered why I was pleased that Irelend held the Ibn al-Bawwab Koran and the Genji scrolls and all those Japanese snuff-bottles. But I think I'll still hold out for a more plausible motivation.

    And you still haven't answered my question, ZW, now put to you twice.

    On the matter of tourists not coming to Ireland to view Islamic art, surely the more imaginative answer to that would be to publicize it better, and likewise for the Chinese Jade Books, and the vast middle-eastern collection.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Now that poor ZW has argued himself into a box and has nowhere to turn, he falls victim to the very vice he falsely accuses Hapax of employing, name calling.

    [email protected]
    Standard juvenile debating tactic of sarcasm and name-calling when you havent a clue how to articulate a counter argument. You lose.
    Not only does he avoid answering Hapaxs' question, he is also apparently content to be labeled a fake Libertarian. In this case ZW YOU LOSE, big time.
    As a general rule the most successful man in life is the man who has the best information.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Chester Beatty Library - Online Catalogue

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapax View Post
    Hmmmm. I always wondered why I was pleased that Irelend held the Ibn al-Bawwab Koran and the Genji scrolls and all those Japanese snuff-bottles. But I think I'll still hold out for a more plausible motivation.

    And you still haven't answered my question, ZW, now put to you twice.

    On the matter of tourists not coming to Ireland to view Islamic art, surely the more imaginative answer to that would be to publicize it better, and likewise for the Chinese Jade Books, and the vast middle-eastern collection.
    +1

    We should be promoting it a lot more to attract a lot more visitors. A small donation to it would easily make it self sufficient and ensure that it could pay for itself. I think poor old ZW has put himself in a corner (and i like the chap but he has to wiggle his way out of this one )
    History is the only true teacher, the revolution the best school for the proletariat - Rosa Luxembourg

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