Two 'Big Lies' so far from the Yes side in Treaty Debate

[PaddyJoe]

I know we have a few Referendum threads already and I don't want to clutter the place but two absolutely gigantic whoppers from Rabbitte and Martin deserve highlighting.
These are not debating points; they are simply direct lies
1. Pat Rabbitte on the The Week in Politcs on Sunday night:

We have no veto on the ESM

Completly untrue:

The amendment to Article 136 can only enter into force
when notifi cations of ratifi cation have been received from all
EU Member States. If this is not the case before 1 January 2013,
it will enter into force on the fi rst day of the month following the
receipt of the last of the notifi cations.

2. Michael Martin on the Vincent Browne debate this evening:

ESM will lend to us at cost

Completely untrue

THE INSTRUMENTS OF FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE
The ESM has been set up to provide fi nancial
assistance, subject to strict conditionality, to euro
area countries experiencing severe fi nancing
diffi culties. As with the EFSF, this assistance
will predominantly take the form of loans,
known as ESM stability support (ESS). ESS will
be conditional on agreement to and compliance
with a strict macroeconomic adjustment
programme. The maturity of the ESS loans will
depend on the nature of the imbalances and the
benefi ciary country’s prospects of regaining
access to fi nancial markets. The interest rate on
the loans, which may be either fi xed or variable,
will be the sum of the funding cost to the
ESM and a charge of 200 basis points.
An additional surcharge of 100 basis points
will be added for amounts still outstanding after
three years. The pricing policy will be reviewed
by the ESM Board of Governors on a regular
basis.

Source: The ECB: "The European Stability Mechanism"
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/art..._pp71-84en.pdf

[Griska]

You should send this on to Vinnie B's twitter machine, post haste, Paddy Joe.

[DCon]

You should send this on to Vinnie B's twitter machine, post haste, Paddy Joe.

Seconded. Motion passed.

Get on the Twitter machine PJ

[Dr. FIVE]

Paschal adamant on the lie just now.

[ang]

Somebody needs to tell Karl Whelan also his blog states -

In contrast, loans from European facilities now carry no margin over the cost of funds.

http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=386

[PaddyJoe]

Somebody needs to tell Karl Whelan also his blog states -



http://karlwhelan.com/blog/?p=386

That seems to be correct for current funding according to a Dail answer from Noonan back in January.
However, we seem to be paying a bewildering range of interest rates ranging from 2.75% to 4.72% on the various loans that make up the bail out

The Euro Area Heads of State or Government (HOSG) agreed on 21 July 2011 to reduce the cost of the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF) to lending rates equivalent to those of the Balance of Payments facility close to, without going below, the EFSF funding cost. In addition, further amendments to the EFSF framework have removed the interest rate margin on EFSF funds and were incorporated into a new legal agreement on the 27th of October in which the interest rate margin is now defined as zero. The agreement incorporates a guarantee commitment fee of 0.1% per annum and a service fee to cover the cost of operations of the EFSF.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/19/00078.asp

Not applicable to the ESM though.

[ang]

That seems to be correct for current funding according to a Dail answer from Noonan back in January.
However, we seem to be paying a bewildering range of interest rates ranging from 2.75% to 4.72% on the various loans that make up the bail out

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/dail/2012/01/19/00078.asp

Not applicable to the ESM though.

Yes I get that but it was made in reference to IMF funding if no to Fiscal compact implying we are better off with EU funding us.

[C. Flower]

I know we have a few Referendum threads already and I don't want to clutter the place but two absolutely gigantic whoppers from Rabbitte and Martin deserve highlighting.
These are not debating points; they are simply direct lies
1. Pat Rabbitte on the The Week in Politcs on Sunday night:

Completly untrue:



2. Michael Martin on the Vincent Browne debate this evening:

Completely untrue



Source: The ECB: "The European Stability Mechanism"
http://www.ecb.int/pub/pdf/other/art..._pp71-84en.pdf

Ken Curtin thinks Martin will correct this.

*holds breath with trepidation*

[Griska]

Ken Curtin thinks Martin will correct this.

*holds breath with trepidation*

He may "correct" this, but it will be to a smaller audience, and the lie may have stuck with some.

[C. Flower]

He may "correct" this, but it will be to a smaller audience, and the lie may have stuck with some.

People in Ireland distrust politicians.

[Griska]

People in Ireland distrust politicians.

True, and FF politicians in particular, but somebody watching the debate tonight hoping to hear something to sway their vote may well have picked up on Martin's comment.

[C. Flower]

True, and FF politicians in particular, but somebody watching the debate tonight hoping to hear something to sway their vote may well have picked up on Martin's comment.

Martin and Mary Lou were sharper than Higgins and .... who was it...

The Government is failing to sell the Treaty per se. It is all about consequences, and people will feel that is obfuscation, and become exasperated.

[DCon]

Tweet machine coverage on VB

Why was M. Martin the only leader?

Why were Labour not represented? Why let FG speak for them?

FG (or is it FF) and FF (or is it FG) are 2 peas in a pod

No reference to a truth seeking PJ

[Griska]

Tweet machine coverage on VB

Why was M. Martin the only leader?

Why were Labour not represented? Why let FG speak for them?

FG (or is it FF) and FF (or is it FG) are 2 peas in a pod

No reference to a truth seeking PJ

Our Truther has been silenced!

[PaddyJoe]

Our Truther has been silenced!

Don't worry. There's be plenty of other fibs flying around for the next four weeks.
The trick is to shoot them down as quick as possible to make way for the next ones...