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Thread: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

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    Default The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    The KKE is a Greek communist party that has been very visible in protests in Syntagma Square and throughout Greece, and that has issued very militant-sounding statements calling for an end to capitalism. People seem to be losing patience with the posturing, which is not matched with any practical programme to support Greeks who are ready to push forward and walk the walk, taking over community centres, feeding people, occupying the Square and organising though all social and economic areas of daily life.

    They recently issued a statement that condemned the "indignados" and said that all opposition should be focused on the workplaces and trade union activity. This excludes much of the embryonic revolutionary movement in Greece that rejects the system that has failed and wants to take practical steps to replace it, and is a recipe for division and failure.
    It is much in line with the KKE's thuggery and bullying in Syntagma Square which they closed to mass demonstrations on a critical day of protest, just before the democratic government was replaced.

    This Reuters report suggests that the KKE is now getting the same kind of angry heckling as the centrist and right parties, from people furious with all who have in any way gone along with the institutions that are destroying their lives.


    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...83P0WW20120426


    There is a very real threat from the right. Laos, New Dawn and New Democracy are falling over each other competing to bring in a regime that crushes political rights and divides Greece down ethnic lines.


    The leader of Popular Orthodox Rally (LAOS) on Thursday accused New Democracy chief Antonis Samaras of stealing all of the nationalist party’s positions as the conservative politician set out his social policies and plans for political reform.Samaras returned to the Zappeio Hall in Athens to unveil his agenda, which placed great emphasis on law, order, institutions, education and religion. Adopting a similar line to the one followed by French President Nicolas Sarkozy in his country’s elections, Samaras took up a tough position on immigration, saying he would repeal a law granting citizenship to second generation migrants.
    Samaras pledged to clamp down on self-styled anarchists by allowing police to use CCTV cameras and adopting stricter security policies at universities. He also promised to increase policemen’s pay. The ND leader said there would be pay increases for some members of the armed forces if he becomes prime minister next month. Samaras added that he would not cut the salaries of priests, who are paid from the public budget.

    http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w...04/2012_439524

    The left cant afford to mess up.
    Last edited by C. Flower; 27-04-2012 at 10:41 AM.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    If memory serves me right it was KKE members who blocked an young anarchists and others from occupying the Greek parliament by joining arms and physically defending it. Objectively looked at they seem to be just a tool of the Greek ruling class.
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    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Oh for God's sake, surely the abject failure of PASOK is enough to deal with.

    The vital thing now is for the Greek people to elect a government that has a mandate to tell Merkel & co to get stuffed. Unlike our parties, a Greek government with people like KKE in it will probably do just that.

    if they do not, then an outright insurrection may well be justified, but until then, please suspend judgment on what is now the leading party of the left in Greece.

    To call the KKE a tool of the ruling class is utterly ridiculous.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Or, if you want to know what the KKE is really saying (and it's not about just workplace and trade union activity), you could go straight to the horse's mouth

    http://inter.kke.gr/

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Richardbouvet View Post
    Oh for God's sake, surely the abject failure of PASOK is enough to deal with.

    The vital thing now is for the Greek people to elect a government that has a mandate to tell Merkel & co to get stuffed. Unlike our parties, a Greek government with people like KKE in it will probably do just that.

    if they do not, then an outright insurrection may well be justified, but until then, please suspend judgment on what is now the leading party of the left in Greece.

    To call the KKE a tool of the ruling class is utterly ridiculous.
    So why did they protect the establishment politicians within from an occupation of the parliament and perhaps its overthrow? Also it is patently absurd to call for a suspension of judgment on the KKE, should we suspend judgment on Labour or Sinn Féin merely because they are the largest parties of the left in Ireland?
    Нооруз пиээ пурылыа выиттыа


    'Our goal is to conquer state power for the Irish working class'
    Pat Rabitte, 1987

    "Can I ask whether this is what the men of 1916 died for: a bailout from the German chancellor with a few shillings of sympathy from the British chancellor on the side?"
    Michael Noonan, November 2010

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Protecting parliament from being overthrown does not make anyone a tool of the ruling class. Would protecting parliament from a military coup make them such?

    KKE cannot be accused of abject failure until and unless the Greek people, having democratically elected a new government, are still saddled with oppression and austerity.

    The people are entitled to give KKE a chance, and I think we are pretty much obliged to do the same.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    Or, if you want to know what the KKE is really saying (and it's not about just workplace and trade union activity), you could go straight to the horse's mouth

    http://inter.kke.gr/

    Yes, let's -

    http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/201...int-statement/

    Hope lies in the class struggle
    We salute the great struggles of the workers in Greece, Spain and many other countries with the communists and class-oriented forces in the front line. Such struggles will multiply. We particularly salute the magnificent strike of the steelworkers in Greece. This struggle, like the general strikes, demonstrates in practice that the crucial battle will not be waged in the squares with the “indignant citizens”, or at the social dialogues of the compromised representatives of the ITUC/ETUC. The anger and indignation in order to have a prospect must be expressed in the workplaces, where the class struggle is judged, in opposition to the so-called “social cohesion” and the social dialogues which are promoted and supported by the social-democrats, the ELP and the compromised confederations of trade unions, the ITUC and ETUC.
    In our countries the existence and activity of a discrete class-oriented pole is a resource and legacy for the struggle of the working class and popular strata. The All-workers Militant Front (PAME) in Greece, as well as the incipient Committees of Workers Unity (CUO) in Spain, constitute a valuable support because they promote the class struggle and expose the undermining role of the compromised leaderships of the trade union movement, and organize the struggle of the working class against capital.
    The KKE and the PCPE will strengthen their joint initiatives both in their countries and in the International Communist Movement in order to invigorate the perspective in the working class and the popular strata which is forged by the revolutionary strategy for an implacable class struggle for working class power. The International Communist Review plays a particular role and has a special contribution to this cause. This is an initiative of the theoretical journals of communist parties which aims at reinforcing the Marxist-Leninist direction in the international communist movement as a pre-condition for its necessary regroupment.
    Socialism is necessary, timely and the only way out
    The bourgeois and opportunists who saluted the overthrow of socialism, who spoke of the “period of freedom, prosperity and peace”, have been completely refuted. Today the ELP bears a particular responsibility for the anti-communist hysteria because it accepted the core of the offensive of the bourgeois class by denying and slandering the socialism we knew, promoting the “21st century socialism” which is nothing other than capitalism with a “human face”, something that cannot exist. The nostalgia for socialism in the countries where it had been constructed is increasing today. The peoples who experienced socialism do not forget it. The CPs can today draw conclusions regarding the laws of socialist construction which were violated and the mistakes which were made. The new socialist revolutions will have a legacy before them, the socialism we knew, the superiority of the socialised and centrally planned economy, without capitalists and exploitation, without crises and unemployment, with disengagement from NATO and the EU, without insecurity about the future, where the working class will be in charge and in control, the class which will take the reins of power into its hands.
    Stick to workplace struggles, it says, And then a pile of blather.
    No concrete programme of actions for the Greek people to meet their situation. No call for occupations, resistance to cuts, emergency measures to feed, for displacing the undemocratic, imposed government.
    Nothing to counteract the xenophobia of the right.

    A vague nostalgia for "the socialism we knew" without asking why the socialist states collapsed.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Stalinists *shudders*
    "Fascinating, watching the world act as though it still had a financial system. Using the toilet, when the pipes are gone." - some guy on twitter

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    Yes, let's -

    http://cedarlounge.wordpress.com/201...int-statement/

    Stick to workplace struggles, it says, And then a pile of blather.
    No concrete programme of actions for the Greek people to meet their situation. No call for occupations, resistance to cuts, emergency measures to feed, for displacing the undemocratic, imposed government.
    Nothing to counteract the xenophobia of the right.

    A vague nostalgia for "the socialism we knew" without asking why the socialist states collapsed.
    So take one joint statement about two countries that also addresses the international statement and ignore absolutely everything else they say about - for example - the importance of voting the neo-liberal parties out. Clearly from their electoral activity they are only interested in workplace and trade union activity for expressing all opposition.

    If you are going to misrepresent what people say, you might do a better job of it next time.

    As for defending the parliament. The KKE was defending its own members not the parliament. The KKE did not occupy or control access to the whole of the square. Ask the anarchists why they chose to try and approach through that direction. As for the notion that some anarchists with tear gas, petrol bombs and stones getting into parliament would somehow constitute the overthrow of the Greek state. Literally laughable.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    [quote]
    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    So take one joint statement about two countries that also addresses the international statement and ignore absolutely everything else they say about - for example - the importance of voting the neo-liberal parties out. Clearly from their electoral activity they are only interested in workplace and trade union activity for expressing all opposition.

    If you are going to misrepresent what people say, you might do a better job of it next time.
    It is an important statement, and it takes time out to condemn the occupation of the square - the occupation itself was not a panacea, but was a movement of people into political resistance that should have been protected and defended by the left. The appearance is very much of a party that intends to keep control over opposition by concentrating it in the bodies in which it has established a strong presences. The same kind of thing on a much smaller scale as our SP/SWP get up to.
    Sectarian attitudes on the left could be very costly, at a time when the right, allied to the police and armed forces, are energetically organising. If there is to be a change of power in Greece, as apparently is the aim of the KKE, it will be necessary to forgo attacking potential allies, in favour of a united front.

    It was difficult to see exactly what went on that day in the square, but I watched a large number of youtube videos and looked and a lot of photographs, and read different accounts. It is incontrovertible however that the KKE turned its back on the Parliament, in favour of battering anarchists and trotskyists, and that it was a pre-planned strategy. The main body of the march, which was massive, was prevented from entering the square.

    The notion you put forward that a small number of anarchists entering Parliament would lead to a change of power, you find laughable. With millions of workers on the streets, and at a point when the Greek parliament was about to be displaced by an EU coup, it would have been entirely in order for people to enter the Parliament to defend it from the coup, and to insist that the elected body continued to do its work, or give way to a snap election.

    You would hardly expect any party that carries red flags not to call for voting against neoliberals. But the idea that parliamentarism can solve the Greek crisis is also laughable.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    [quote=C. Flower;244006]

    It is an important statement, and it takes time out to condemn the occupation of the square - the occupation itself was not a panacea, but was a movement of people into political resistance that should have been protected and defended by the left. The appearance is very much of a party that intends to keep control over opposition by concentrating it in the bodies in which it has established a strong presences. The same kind of thing on a much smaller scale as our SP/SWP get up to.
    Sectarian attitudes on the left could be very costly, at a time when the right, allied to the police and armed forces, are energetically organising. If there is to be a change of power in Greece, as apparently is the aim of the KKE, it will be necessary to forgo attacking potential allies, in favour of a united front.

    It was difficult to see exactly what went on that day in the square, but I watched a large number of youtube videos and looked and a lot of photographs, and read different accounts. It is incontrovertible however that the KKE turned its back on the Parliament, in favour of battering anarchists and trotskyists, and that it was a pre-planned strategy. The main body of the march, which was massive, was prevented from entering the square.

    The notion you put forward that a small number of anarchists entering Parliament would lead to a change of power, you find laughable. With millions of workers on the streets, and at a point when the Greek parliament was about to be displaced by an EU coup, it would have been entirely in order for people to enter the Parliament to defend it from the coup, and to insist that the elected body continued to do its work, or give way to a snap election.

    You would hardly expect any party that carries red flags not to call for voting against neoliberals. But the idea that parliamentarism can solve the Greek crisis is also laughable.
    Neither I nor the KKE suggest that the answer is parliamentarianism. But control of the government would be a very handy start. The anarchists of course were not trying to enter the parliament to defend it, so that's a hypothetical discussion.

    Is the KKE the only organisation in Greece that points out what it considers the mistakes of the others on the left? Do the anarchists, for example, want a united front? How about the split off from Syriza, which has garnered a lot of support? It seems that people discuss the KKE in isolation from the facts on the ground.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Oh, and I suspect that the occupados being discussed are the Spanish ones primarily on the grounds that such a response is not one that seeks to conquer state power, and therefore is ignoring the fundamental question of proletarian revolution of any sort.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    Oh, and I suspect that the occupados being discussed are the Spanish ones primarily on the grounds that such a response is not one that seeks to conquer state power, and therefore is ignoring the fundamental question of proletarian revolution of any sort.

    This is what was said:

    This struggle, like the general strikes, demonstrates in practice that the crucial battle will not be waged in the squares with the “indignant citizens”, or at the social dialogues of the compromised representatives of the ITUC/ETUC. The anger and indignation in order to have a prospect must be expressed in the workplaces, where the class struggle is judged, in opposition to the so-called “social cohesion” and the social dialogues which are promoted and supported by the social-democrats, the ELP and the compromised confederations of trade unions, the ITUC and ETUC.
    A crystal ball would be required to know where crucial battles will be waged, but they have been waged in streets and squares for a couple of hundred years.

    Work place action is important, but it is essentially tied to economic demands. Political and social demands are taken to the streets, and occupations of public facilities. In Cairo, at the height of activity last year, workers, doctors, teachers, left their workplaces and went, in organised blocs, to the Squares. This was in addition to occupying and going on strike. Social revolution has never taken place without command of public spaces being won at crucial stages, by participation of masses of people. In times when society is in upheaval and real change is possible, a multiplicity of different and new forms of action crop up, that all should be supported and welded together.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by C. Flower View Post
    This is what was said:

    A crystal ball would be required to know where crucial battles will be waged, but they have been waged in streets and squares for a couple of hundred years.

    Work place action is important, but it is essentially tied to economic demands. Political and social demands are taken to the streets, and occupations of public facilities. In Cairo, at the height of activity last year, workers, doctors, teachers, left their workplaces and went, in organised blocs, to the Squares. This was in addition to occupying and going on strike. Social revolution has never taken place without command of public spaces being won at crucial stages, by participation of masses of people. In times when society is in upheaval and real change is possible, a multiplicity of different and new forms of action crop up, that all should be supported and welded together.
    So there is a time and a place for taking public space at the appropriate moment then? No-one would argue with that. The point is when is the appropriate moment. However hard we may wish it, there is no evidence that Greece as a whole is ready for social revolution. For example, where is the evidence the forces of the state are ready to go over to the revolutionary side? Where even is the evidence that they are refusing to obey orders and be neutral? This seems to me a much more important question in a modern state than who is standing in the building that the parliament resides in. For a relatively recent example, check out Yeltsin's coup against the election results in 1993. Having the Duma wasn't much use to the CP then without better organised wider support.

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    Default Re: The Abject Failure of the KKE in the Greek Crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Garibaldy View Post
    For example, where is the evidence the forces of the state are ready to go over to the revolutionary side? Where even is the evidence that they are refusing to obey orders and be neutral?
    Are you, and the KKE, going to wait for hell to freeze over?

    In fact, there were some grumblings from the Greek police, weeks back, but if you read the manifestos of the centre and right parties, in the current elections, they are well aware of this danger. These parties are planning to stoke up the police and army with cash and recruitment.

    Social revolution doesn't necessarily happen all in one session, in text book style. And "revolutionary" parties that wait for the army to defect to the peoples' revolution often end up jailed or dead. The point in Greece at the moment is to make sure every one is fed, that there are clinics open, that jobs are defended, and that clear and practical economic, social and political solutions are put forward, to stop the "austerity" project in its tracks.

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