ESM quietly altered in February to insert clause preventing Ireland from receiving funds without ratifying Compact

[disability student]

THE ESM – TOTAL IMMUNITY CLAUSES - The Chattering Magpie:-



http://thechatteringmagpie14.blogspo....html?spref=tw

Very good question as to why we shouldn't be voting for immunity clause? They would say to us .. ' you have voted yes to implement that immunity clause' in the event of aye victory.

It reminded me of legal manovering i had with a solicitor before which he mentioned to me off the cuff re 'with no liability admission'.It sounded to me more like immunity clause that EU/ECB inserted without our knowledge. It should state ''Immunity or no immunity.

One thing is clear now is that EU/ECB/FG/Lab have total contempt for us-electorate..... my way or yours??

[ang]

I wonder could lack of Govt transparancy on the ESM lose them (Govt) the Fiscal Compact referendum -

Poll majority favours ESM vote

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...reaking31.html

[PaddyJoe]

Excellent short video here which examines the powers and immunities that the ESM will enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CZr1...ature=youtu.be

[Dr. FIVE]

Pringle due to take the stand in high court at 3

[Dr. FIVE]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...rs-199935.html

The European Council has refused to release documents on the fiscal treaty after the Government intervened.

In response to a request to the council for all documents submitted by the Government or on behalf of the Irish people, the council said the Government had argued successfully against releasing the documents.

Unlike on previous occasions where it has emerged that the Government had never submitted any documents to the EU, the Government made five submissions to try to change the fiscal treaty in advance of the successful referendum held on the May 31.

The documents, which could not be released, set out the specific objectives pursued by Ireland in the context of the fiscal compact.

The Government had argued that to release the documents would undermine the financial stability of the EU.

[PaddyJoe]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...rs-199935.html

Sound like a similar response to the one that Gavin of thestory.ie got when he chased up the November 2010 letters to Lenihan from the ECB:

http://thestory.ie/2012/01/09/ecb-re...ailout-letter/

[Greengoddess]

I don't know if MEPs have any special authority in relation to the ECB.

It would seem like a very good idea for them to ask for it, anyway.

Here's the post in The Story, with the ECB reply in full.

http://thestory.ie/2012/01/09/ecb-re...ailout-letter/

I have been just refused this request which I lodged under FOI.

[Sam Lord]

I have been just refused this request which I lodged under FOI.

Was the request to the Irish government or the ECB?

[Greengoddess]

Was the request to the Irish government or the ECB?

To the government . The DFA. For the following reasons:


(a) access to the record could reasonably be expected to have a serious adverse affect on the financial interests of the State or on the ability of the Government to manage the national economy,

[Greengoddess]

I have a fairly good imagination, but am unable to envisage what kind of horrors this letter must contain, for it to represent such a threat.

To be more exact.

"Having reviewed your request, I consider that the records you have requested are covered by Section 31 of the Freedom of Information Act 1997 (extract copied ,below, *for ease of reference)* and are, therefore, exempt from disclosure under the Act as they would undermine the protection of the financial, monetary and economic policy of Ireland as a member State of the European Union.

I too am trying to imagine but clearly the reasons are serious in some way

[C. Flower]

I am sorry guys, but I may have out this on the wrong thread. I am on holiday in Iceland at the moment. Relying on wi fi in hotels etc. My FOI was on the following:

I refer to your request of 19 July, 2012 for access to records concerning “the five submissions made by the Government to the European Council during the negotiations for the fiscal compact treaty”.

This is also intriguing.

It certainly is.

This would include submissions made before the amendments to the proposed Treaty ?

Linking the Treaty to the ESM ?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...eaty+amendment

[Greengoddess]

It certainly is.

This would include submissions made before the amendments to the proposed Treaty ?

Linking the Treaty to the ESM ?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...eaty+amendment

I think they must be before. It was during negotiations . It may be possible to put the questions directly to the Council but we not know yet. My responsibities as a public representative are not clear to me either . You could see it from two directions. Being in Iceland doesn't help. They did the right thing. Intersting article in the FT today about that.

[PaddyJoe]

It certainly is.

This would include submissions made before the amendments to the proposed Treaty ?

Linking the Treaty to the ESM ?

http://www.politicalworld.org/showth...eaty+amendment

The government intervened to prevent the EU from releasing the five submissions it made before the referendum on the Fiscal Treaty:

Unlike on previous occasions where it has emerged that the Government had never submitted any documents to the EU, the Government made five submissions to try to change the fiscal treaty in advance of the successful referendum held on the May 31.

The documents, which could not be released, set out the specific objectives pursued by Ireland in the context of the fiscal compact.

The Government had argued that to release the documents would undermine the financial stability of the EU.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland...rs-199935.html

[MPB]

It,s nice to know that these monkeys are concerned about the financial stability of the euro.

They deserve a massive slap on the back for the great job they are doing.

Just make sure they are standing on the edge of a cliff when they get that slap on the back.

Morons the lot of them.

Let me give you my opinion on why the information is being concealed. It is because the actions are most likely illegal.

[C. Flower]

It,s nice to know that these monkeys are concerned about the financial stability of the euro.

They deserve a massive slap on the back for the great job they are doing.

Just make sure they are standing on the edge of a cliff when they get that slap on the back.

Morons the lot of them.

Let me give you my opinion on why the information is being concealed. It is because the actions are most likely illegal.

The spokesperson for the general secretariat of the council, Jakob Thomsen, said: "Given the arguments raised by Ireland and after having examined the content of the requested documents, the general secretariat came to the conclusion that their release would undermine the protection of the public interest as regards the financial, monetary or economic policy of the union."

A spokesperson for the Department of the Taoiseach said it is the long-standing position of the Government not to release documents relating to international relations, even where they impact on domestic policy.

However, the spokes-person added that the Government is committed to transparency.

"It of course remains the position of the Irish Government to provide transparency to the public," the spokesperson said.

"This was reflected in the unprecedented level of detail provided to the public in the information campaign around the stability treaty referendum."

Mr Thomsen said the sensitive political nature of the fiscal compact and the current climate in Europe were all taken into account when assessing whether to release the documents.

"In view of the particular political sensitivity of the matters dealt with by the fiscal compact treaty, where the ratification process in member states is still ongoing, public access to documents submitted in the context of the negotiations demands particular caution," he said.

Transparency ***. Blatantly going behind the backs of voters in a completely anti-democratic fashion to muscle the fiscal compact through.